Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc41.txt

Text File | 1993-09-28 | 148KB | 4,134 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XLI
Jun. 24 '93 - Jun. 30 '93

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

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Subject: Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 10:44:39 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

Hey all,

I have a couple of Imagine-related questions, hopefully someone out
there holds the answers:

1) VistaPro:  I've read that VistaPro can output objects that are Turbo
   Silver compatible.  (As a recent newcomer to Imagine PC, I
   understand that Turbo Silver was the precursor to Imagine).  I
   whipped out an ancient version of VistaPro 1.0 and it doesn't appear
   to work with Imagine PC 2.0.  What's the deal?  I'd love to be able
   to import a landscape and I've had very little luck trying to create
   realistic landscapes by hand in Imagine.

2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good sources for brushmaps available,
   either public domain or commercial?  I could really use some tiled
   brushmaps to work with.  If there were some available on the net,
   that would really make my day, otherwise a CD-ROM collection would be
   great.

3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
   RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
   Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
   chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand.  Of course, once I had
   a close approximation of the desired color, then I could go back and
   tweak by hand to get the exact color.

thanks in advance for any assistance in these questions

Mark

P.S.  What???  No flames???

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: Re: Are there any AREXX compata
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 15:30:31 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)

>>>>> On Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:15:05 -0400 (EDT), Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]> said:

Udo> You should definitely look at Glenn Lewis' TT3DLIB software, which
Udo> is a textual 3D format that can be converted to/from Imagine.  With
Udo> that you are not limited to what an object editor can do, so you
Udo> can fully indulge yourself by algorithmically describing objects.
Udo> I just looked around on wuarchive, but couldn't find it.  If
Udo> someone knows where EXACTLY it can be found (Glenn?) please let us
Udo> know.
Udo>  ._.  Udo Schuermann
Udo>  ( )  [e-mail]

    Thanks for the nice description, Udo!  I appreciate it.  Just
FYI, I tried to make the name easier, so I call it T3DLIB (used to be
TTDDDLIB...very difficult to say over the phone  :-) .  T3DLIB stands
for Textual 3D LIBrary.  (The original term "TDDD" by Impulse stands for
Three Dimension Data Description, which I shortened to "3D"... kinda
makes sense, doesn't it!?!?  :-)

    With the rash of Amiga ftp sites closing, I don't know *where*
it is!  It used to have its home on hubcap, and then on amiga.physik...,
but now I dunno.  Maybe ftp.luth.se?  Haven't checked myself.  Does
anyone want to suggest a site, if it can't be found?

    Direct E-mail replies are fine...the list probably doesn't care
to discuss this.  Thanks.
                            -- Glenn


##

Subject: Cd - Rom/Essance and Subscribe/unsubscribe
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 11:19:46 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]

Heya all, thanks for the CD rom info..
But about essance....
Is there a way to get a sample texture or two?
Or even some nice renderings I could FTP?
I am considering purchasing the product, but would like to see
what I am buying first. ;)

As to the subscribe/unsubscribe thread.
Simple, if people dont use the correct address dont unsubscribe them!
either they use the right one or they get a full mail box every day! ;)
After a while I am sure they would get the idea. (And we would hear their
complaints) But it would  make an example that would (hopefully) make
an impression on the rest of the IML for when they decide to unsubscribe!

Just a thought.

 -Don

[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: Are there any AREXX compata
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 02:07:09 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On 23 Jun 1993, Charles Hymes wrote:

> REGARDING                Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out
> there?
> Greetings all, this is my first week with imagine, and my first post to this
> list.
> I want to create precedureally created objects. I plan to create everything
> from fractal snowflakes to 4th dimentionally "roatated" faces.
> To do his simply, I would like an object editor that can accept commands from
> AREXX.  Does such a beast exist?

I think Vertex may be able to. It is/was shareware.

BTW, I think Glenn Lewis' TDDD programs may be of help in creating these
objects.

Nik.


##

Subject: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 11:54:40 -0500
From: [e-mail] (William E. Costello)

>   3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
>      RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
>      Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
>      chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand.  Of course, once I had
>      a close approximation of the desired color, then I could go back and
>      tweak by hand to get the exact color.


I don't know if there is any "guide" to colors, but I found a good
place to find alot of color values is by looking at the rgb.txt file
in my systems /usr/lib/X11 directory.  This file comes with any X11
distribution, but any version less than r4 has a much smaller list
of colors.

bill.

ps, I believe that file is freely distributable (it comes from mit)
    so if you can't find it, I could send you a copy.  The one I have
    has 738 lines (colors) and is about 16k.


##

Subject: Re: Grass
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 12:52:24 EDT
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> unless you can prove that it was better.

Kiernan, I don't have to prove anything to you. Suffice it to say... its
technical, you wouldn't understand. Besides, the details of my design
history are hardly appropriate for this forum, but you wouldn't understand
that either. Braindead is the term that leaps to mind :-)

[ a billion lines of pointless rambling and quoting deleted ]

> Please define data amplification..

Obviously you didn't bother to look at the reference I cited. It is
precisely what it implies, complex model detail is "grown" from simple
data structures. A patch of grass could be represented by a single vector
or a bush by a small collection of vectors. The code itself generates the
complexity from a minimal specification.

>> If Kiernan thinks he can accomplish this with polygonally modeled grass
> I'll try it...

Go ahead, but I wont't hold my breath. Better yet, do everyone a favor and
unsubscribe from this list. You have absolutely nothing pertinent or useful
to say and you repeatedly show complete disregard for posting guidlines.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


##

Subject: PersonalSFC
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 10:47:21 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

   From: [e-mail] (Greg Burger)
   Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:29:30 -0700
   X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)

   Hello

   Has anyone here had experience putting there Imagine animations to tape
   using the PersonalSFC? I was thinking of getting one to use with a Panasonic
   S-VHS VTR (can't remember the model, but it is frame accurate and has time
   code.) I'm also going to need a 24-bit display device to single frame them
   out in 24bit color right? What boards can any of you recomend that are under
   $1000? Does the PersonalSFC have to specifically support the board?

   I've never use single frame controllers before, so any help will be
   GREATLY appreciated!!


I have done so using a Panasonic AG-7750 VTR, the Personal SFC and my
Toaster. I found that the Imagine IFF-24 format to be incompatible
with the Toaster and I had to load and resave all the files (I used
Imagemaster). The personal SFC also supports many other display
devices including the Firecracker.

I found the SFC to be a very nice application that works well with the
7750. My 7750 on the other hand has had some problems, mainly in its
TBC.  I won't bore you here with my tale but I have mixed feelings
about the Panasonic decks.

Right now, I'm using an early version of the SFC software. I've just
today sent my money to upgrade to version 2.51. Nucleus said that
early versions have some trouble with Toaster 2.0. I've not had much
trouble though.

Here is a list of supported display devices as of the version I have.
I'm sure this list is larger now.

Toaster
Firecracker
Harlequin
Color-Burst
HAM-E
DCTV
AmigaGS
Amiga IFF


    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: RGB color values
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 11:22:49 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Albert Koval )

Mark Marino <[e-mail]> writes:

> 3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
>    RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
>    Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
>    chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand

If you look in /usr/lib/X11/rbg.txt in the standard X11R4 distribution,
you'll find 738 RGB color values that you're looking for.  I can send
them to you or post them to the list if you don't have access to them.
A few sample lines are included below:

    255 222 173             navajo white
    255 250 205             LemonChiffon
    230 230 250             lavender
    160  82  45             sienna

Hope this helps.

Albert Koval                    |               Amdahl Corp.
[e-mail]           |               Advanced Systems
[phone]                  |               Fremont, CA


##

Subject: ARexx object creation
Date: 24 Jun 93 14:20:50 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>

To: [e-mail]

> Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out there?

I've been tinkering with an ARexx modeling Converter for InterChange
Plus v3.0, the next release.  I'd made prototypes of this several
times before and never released them, but with the addition of ARexx
interfaces to all of InterChange Plus, I've pulled it from the
archives for a fresh look.

Before I taint you with *my* idea of a useful command set for an
ARexx-driven object creation system, why not give me your ideas and
we'll talk about them?  (If anyone thinks this isn't Imagine-related,
please send private e-mail. :-)  In other words, show me how you'd
like to program a script-driven object editor.  What commands do you
want?

> 3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there

We have something called "Surface files" in InterChange Plus.  These
are a text description of surfaces.  ICP uses them for easy text
editing of attributes, re-mapping of surface info from low-color-res
formats like Sculpt and VideoScape, etc.  You can also convert a
Surface file to an object.  This results in a grid of squares, one
for each color.

ICP ships with our adaptations of the X Window color sets as well as a
set of 64 popular crayon color names.  Excerpts:

# InterChange Plus Surfaces 1.0

Srf "AntiqueWhite"    diffuse 255 color 250 235 215
Srf "PapayaWhip"    diffuse 255 color 255 239 213
Srf "BlanchedAlmond"    diffuse 255 color 255 235 205

# InterChange Plus Surfaces 1.0

Srf "SeaGreen" diffuse 255 color 0.137255 0.556863 0.419608
Srf "Sienna" diffuse 255 color 0.556863 0.419608 0.137255
Srf "SkyBlue" diffuse 255 color 0.196078 0.6 0.8

These examples just set color and diffuse, but everything else
(specular, filter, reflect, etc.) are settable, too.  You're free to
use floats 0.0 .. 1.0, ints 0..255, or hex (0x34) for numbers.
(To find the X color sets on a zillion sites, 'archie -s thomas'.)

For other color names, such as our automatic generation of color
names from RGB values, we use something called the Color Naming
System.  (It's described in an IEEE paper somewhere.)

This is a reversible (!) transformation between English descriptions
of colors and RGB values.  It's actually accurate to about 18 bits.
(I've always wanted to turn it into a color requester, too : click
buttons for "blue", then "light" then "ish" then "green" to get
"light bluish-green".)

Imagine objects can set surface values for each face, and surfaces
aren't really named.  When reading Imagine objects, we create a list
of distinct surfaces and name them with the CNS system, resulting in
surface names like "blue-green" and "purplish red" when converted to
LightWave, which does have named surfaces.

Even if you don't need to convert to LightWave, you can use ICP's
Imagine Converter to enhance your objects.  Convert from Imagine
right back to Imagine, and we create Imagine "sub-groups" (selection
sets of faces) for each distinct surface within each sub-object,
which makes it a *lot* easier to select similarly colored faces
so you can re-color them, for example.

We expanded the "Surface file" and CNS systems into a generalized
"guess a surface" subroutine that's used in our Wavefront Converter.
Given a surface name like "tan", "lt_blk", "asphalt" or "shny_red" it
makes an intelligent guess at a proper set of surface attributes.
(Wavefront objects only name surfaces by reference within the .obj
file, they store the actual definitions in a material library that's
not often around when you want it.)

> 1) VistaPro:  I've read that VistaPro can output objects that are Turbo

Maybe Vista Pro saves Turbo Silver 2.0 format.  In that case, you can
convert them to Imagine format with InterChange Plus, which handles
Turbo Silver 2.0, 3.0 and Imagine format objects.  (Sorry, we haven't
ported to the PC yet.)

Ah, I love the smell of plugs in the morning!  :-)




##

Subject: Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 13:34:13 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)

    1) VistaPro:  I've read that VistaPro can output objects that are Turbo
       Silver compatible.  (As a recent newcomer to Imagine PC, I
       understand that Turbo Silver was the precursor to Imagine).  I
       whipped out an ancient version of VistaPro 1.0 and it doesn't appear
       to work with Imagine PC 2.0.  What's the deal?  I'd love to be able
       to import a landscape and I've had very little luck trying to create
       realistic landscapes by hand in Imagine.
I just made a mountain and foothills using taraform (terrain builder?) whatever
it's called, and VistaPro 3.0 (bugfixed version).  It worked fine.  I don't
remember how VistaPro 1.0 worked.  I seem to remember having to load it into
Turbo silver first then saving and loading it into Imagine. All Amiga version
of course :-).

Brian Ridout
[e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 14:16:43 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)

>
> >   3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
> >      RGB values?
>
>
> I don't know if there is any "guide" to colors, but I found a good
> place to find alot of color values is by looking at the rgb.txt file
> in my systems /usr/lib/X11 directory.  This file comes with any X11
> distribution, but any version less than r4 has a much smaller list
> of colors.
>
> bill.
>
> ps, I believe that file is freely distributable (it comes from mit)
>     so if you can't find it, I could send you a copy.  The one I have
>     has 738 lines (colors) and is about 16k.
>
if enough people request it, you could uuencode it and put it on the list.  I am
sure quite a few people would be interested(I already have it).

Another good source for stuff like this is Understanding Imagine 2.0 by
Steve Worley.  It has attributes for quite a few surfaces, ie wood, aluminum,
chrome, etc.  I don't recall seeing a color chart though. Although this was
written by an Amiga user, it would be very handy for Imagine users on any
platform.  I got my copy from Safe Harbor at 1800 544 6599 (USA). (No
affiliation, just a happy customer).  Its a book, BTW.

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]


##

Subject: executable size?
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 16:11:42 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)

What's the size of the latest ImagineFP executable?  I ran into a problem that
I'd like to document and report to Impulse, but first I want to be sure I
have the latest version.

Steve


##

Subject: Apex Newsletter Hits The Street
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 16:13:33 CDT
From: [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)

Yodel-eh-ee-hooo Imagineers    :-)



I thought I would drop you a line and let you know
that yesterday's mail brought the arrival of the second
APEX newsletter in all it's glory.

Articles include a Question And Answer section,
a "Looping Fractal Noise Animations" article,
a section in which the APEX line of products are
described, and a two page area covering the goodies
in Essence Vol. II.

What's new?
1. Most of the textures now include a bump mapping ability.
2. Clarified terminology
3. Includes over 100 "attribute files" (just add water - ie ready to use)
4. An on-disk library of how many of these look.
5. Many "organic random tiled surfaces" which APEX touts as being
   "literally state-of-the-art in 1993 with Apex being the FIRST
    company to use this new type of texture basis. NOBODY using
    an SGI or a PC or a Mac HAS THESE!"

Run down of some of the new Textures:

Space
-----
Gasplanet, Planetring, Cyclone, Spaceship Hull

Organic
-------
Includes altitude maps for things like snakeskin, "parched, leather-like
         hides...sort of like crusty alien snot (but worse)"

Bumpy Things
------------
Stucco and Pitted. "erode a landscape in an instant".
Crumpled. For crumpled paper, cauliflower, etc etc etc
Burnish. Terminator II logo simulation. "Outstanding metallic surface."
         Scratches.

Water Effects
-------------
Waterdrop, Raindrops, Seawaves, Caustics.

Misc. Textures
----------------
LatLonLines. - Globelike.
Radarscope- Animated sweeping trace.
Fiber- Fiberglass/twine mesh.
Faceted- relative to Crumpled


Bumparray, Crust, Clusterbump, Flagstones, Fleck, Julia, Plasma,
PolkaBump, Scales, Shingles, Vein, Woodgrain.


Then, the newsletter looks at UPCOMING APEX products like
Essence Professional, Essence PC, "Understanding Imagine 3.0"
etc etc etc.

Backpage has the APEX contact info:

[phone] (10-6 Mon-Fri PST) or FAX [phone]

email-   [e-mail]
or the APEX vendor area on Portal  "Go APEX"

or mail

Apex Software
405 El Camino Real Suite 121
Menlo Park CA 94025


                                    ship (US/Can)  (overseas)
Understanding Imagine 2.0   $28          4             9
Essence I                   $48          3             6
Essence II                  $74          3             6




Anyway, now I have given you a rough overview of what the
newsletter contained. Glenn or Steve will be able to answer
any specifics you might have. You foreign readers won't have
to wait to at least see what the deal is.


Dave Wickard   [phone]   "I'm *NOT* picking my nose.
[e-mail]         I'm just itching the inside of
[e-mail]        my nostril."  -Steve Mund



##

Subject: Brushmaps
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 15:04:45 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

hi mark,
re: your question about brushmaps- for repeating,tilable maps, I have
enjoyed using the PRo-Textures packages from Amazing Computers. Leo Martin
has done some nice stuff to make the textures seamlessly repeat, although
some discretion is advisable in repeating *too* much, as patterns can be seen.

For non 24 bit textures, Profills are very small, very nice little 16 color
maps of stucco, tile, cyclone fence, etc. Most of these work better as
bump maps or diffusion maps(Lightwave). The best thing about Profills is the
price, very cheap.

For non repeating maps, I hear Texture City has the best, although since
they are non repeating I have not bought them.

John Fousts upcoming 3D CD-rom will  have tons of seamless maps on it,
in addition to millions :-) of star trek models to fly around with :_)

hope this helps,

kevin
[e-mail]
p.s. there is also a commercial BBS that specializes in beautiful JPEG and GIF
textures, they advertised in the premiere issue of Desktop Video World,
i could post their number if you are interested, I called them to browse around,
very beautiful stuff, but not cheap...



##

Subject: Re: PersonalSFC
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 18:16:42 -0300
From: [e-mail]

PersonalSFC supports DCTV and HAM-E (as well as Toaster etc...)
both costs under $1000

Christian Leyen ([e-mail])


##

Subject: Apex Newsletter
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:54:51 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

Indeed, Dave spilled the beans. :-)

The second Apex newsletter has been sent out to all the users we know
of and a few more. (Yes, including overseas.) It announces Essence
volume II and gives a full lowdown on it.

We purposely did not post anything here on the list yet, since the
newsletter answers most questions people will have. An official
"announcement" post will be made here this weekend, with JPEGs
uploaded to an FTP site and Portal as well. :-)

So hold off on your questions and be patient for a couple of days. It
will be worth the wait: we promise.  :-)

-Steve, Glenn, and Charles
The Apex Brothers





##

Subject: RE:APex Newsletter
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 03:47:23 BST
From: [e-mail]

Hmmm would it be possible to put a transcript of what is in the news letter
up on the list or even mail it to me if it is too big.. just so that
I can see what I am missing by not having essence?

Jason


##

Subject: Re: Cd - Rom/Essance and Subscribe/unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 13:20:49 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

> But about essance....
> Is there a way to get a sample texture or two?
> Or even some nice renderings I could FTP?
> I am considering purchasing the product, but would like to see
> what I am buying first. ;)
>
If you want to see some nice pics done with Imagine and using Essence as
well check out Andrew Denton's pics on any of the Aminet sites. They are
in gfx/pics/guard I think (anyway definitely in the guard/ directory.

BTW, get Essence it is definitely worth the money!

Nik.
[e-mail]





##

Subject: Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 13:06:12 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

> 1) VistaPro:  I've read that VistaPro can output objects that are Turbo
>    Silver compatible.  (As a recent newcomer to Imagine PC, I
>    understand that Turbo Silver was the precursor to Imagine).  I
>    whipped out an ancient version of VistaPro 1.0 and it doesn't appear
>    to work with Imagine PC 2.0.  What's the deal?  I'd love to be able
>    to import a landscape and I've had very little luck trying to create
>    realistic landscapes by hand in Imagine.

Is this VistaPro for PC or Amiga? Imagine should be able to import these
objects anyway but just in case maybe try a landscape saved out of
VistaPro 2.0 if you can.

> 2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good sources for brushmaps available,
>    either public domain or commercial?  I could really use some tiled
>    brushmaps to work with.  If there were some available on the net,
>    that would really make my day, otherwise a CD-ROM collection would be
>    great.

You could look around a few FTP sites. Also, if you're willing to send for
some to Australia the Sig that I'm a co-ordinator of here in Sydney has a
collection of Tiles Brushmaps (IFF or JPEG) for sale. The collection has
some 70 or so tiles in it. Most of them are already set up to repeat
and/or mirror. If you're interested contact me via E-Mail.
Yoy may also want to get Texture City CD ROM. It is commercial but has
around 100 Hi-Res images in IFF,TIFF,PICT format. Contact them on: (310)
836-9224.

> 3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
>    RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt

I think someone may have released a whole bunch of attributes with these
different names but can't remember if I have them anywhere. Can anyone
else help?
 >  > thanks in advance for any assistance in these questions
>
Hope this helps.

Nik.
[e-mail]




##

Subject: Re: Are there any AREXX compatable object editors out there?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 08:35:09 BST
From: [e-mail] (Ian Bale)

Hi All,

>I would like an object editor that can accept commands from AREXX.  Does such a beast exist?
>
>Charlweed Hymerfan

It sure does :-)

I got the lastest release of Vertex through the post yesterday. This, from what I've seen so far
( A whole days playing ! ) has a very good ARexx interface. I comes with a quite a few example
scripts, and good documentation. You can get a demo from :

ftp.uni-kl.de      usr/ftp/pub/amiga/hubcap/imagine/TTDDDLIB/contrib/Vertex.lzh


Also have a look at Icoons:

ftp.luth.se        pub/amiga/gfx/3d/ICoons1.0.lzh
                                    ICoons_Nofp.lzh



I'm not sure if the demo version of Vertex has ARexx support, but you will get a good idea of
what it is capable of. The registration fee is $40. There are not going to be any further updates
to the PD version of Vertex, howver, a Commercial version is due fro release soon. All registered
users of the PD version will get a 'substantial discount' if they wish to upgrade to the
commercial version.

Have a close look at the 'quick rendering' it is VERY quick; also take a look at the multipy
command......very powerful.

ICoons is a spline based modeler. I've not had chance to play with it yet, but I suspect it is
going to be useful.

Hope one of these is going to be suitable for you.

-Elfrick.

P.S. On a similar vein, can anyone recommend a good book / PD tutorials for learing ARexx.
     ( Price / ISBN etc would be useful ). I can get hold of a Rexx book; will this be suitable,
     or are there sufficient differences between Rexx and ARexx to warrant purchasing an ARexx book?


        ==========================================================
            Sent by Elfrick:  [e-mail]
        ==========================================================
Note: Despite my e-mail address, I live/work in the UK, and have no connection
      with Sweden, other than working for a Swedish company. Please send
      replies in English, not Swedish. Thanks.




##

Subject: Imagine to Rayshade
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 09:55:36 BST
From: "Git wants an 040 for his amiga." <[e-mail]>

Ok this is my first post to the list so here goes ---->

    At my uni I use a dec 3100 workstation and have been playing
about with rayshade for a while now and want to be able to deign
objects in a cad like enviroment either on the dec or on my amiga
using either Imagine or Real 3d .......
    Is there any way to convert imagine objects to rayshade
scripts ? Or better still Real 3d objects ? (I LOVE CSG *8)_ )
    Hope someone can help..............


        Graeme Wilson

    On the net as     ---oooOOO Git OOOooo---


##

Subject: Cd - Rom/Essance and Subscribe/unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 08:13:22 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

In a previous life Don ([e-mail]) wrote:

>Heya all, thanks for the CD rom info..  But about essance....  Is
>there a way to get a sample texture or two?  Or even some nice
>renderings I could FTP?

I'm sure there are some renderings out there that used it.  I
uploaded Choice.jpg to (I think?) Wuarchive and I am about to upload a
huge anim that uses a few textures here and there.  I will upload some
stills from it too.  Probably Monday and Probably to WUarchive or
ftp.harding.edu
I will repost when I get them up.

>As to the subscribe/unsubscribe thread.
>Simple, if people dont use the correct address dont unsubscribe them!

My thoughts EXACTLY!

> -Don
>[e-mail]

Adam Benjamin
[e-mail]   or   [e-mail]



##

Subject: color guide
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 10:28:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>

>
>
> >   3) Color Guide:  Is there a list somewhere of common colors and there
> >      RGB values?  This would be handy so that if I wanted to use a "Burnt
> >      Sienna" or "Sunflower Yellow" color, I could just look it up in a
> >      chart instead of tweaking RGB values by hand.  Of course, once I had
> >      a close approximation of the desired color, then I could go back and
> >      tweak by hand to get the exact color.
>
>
> I don't know if there is any "guide" to colors, but I found a good
> place to find alot of color values is by looking at the rgb.txt file
> in my systems /usr/lib/X11 directory.  This file comes with any X11
> distribution, but any version less than r4 has a much smaller list
> of colors.
>
> bill.

stuff deleted

I have a cool list of colors that have things like
"eggshell white"
"solf white"
"warm white"   etc etc etc  for a whole bunch of cool colors.
It may in fact be the X file, but anyway.. it gives names of
colors and RGB values.

If someone can tell me a working place to post it, I'll try
to get it out there.  (working place meaning a still-active
ftp site)

Or, send me personal mail, anyone who wants the list, and I'll
mail it to you   (it's pretty long)

Scott



##

Subject: Essence Texture
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 09:42:09 -0500
From: [e-mail]

This is elementary but it might save someone time in creating a nice
marble texture using Essence's Veinedmarble algorithm.

I use the veinedmarble texture twice, once for large, widely spaced
veins.  The second use is for finer, closely spaced veins.

For veined green marble set the object color to 40R 80G 40B.  The
texture veins are a gray-green color.

  Text#1   Text#2    Parameter        Text#1   Text#2    Parameter

  800.0    300.0    Initial Scale       4.0      5.0      Turbidity
    7.0      7.0    # of Scales         0.9      0.98     Color Level
    0.4      0.4    Scale Ratio       120.0    120.0      Color Red
    0.6      0.6    Amp Ratio         150.0    150.0      Color Green
    0.4      0.4    Time Ratio        120.0    120.0      Color Blue
    0.0      0.0    Time                0.0      0.0      Fade 0..1
    1.0      1.0    Sharpness           0.0      0.0
   20.0     10.0    Vein Spacing        0.0      0.0

I rotated the second texture 45 degrees around the x and y axes
with respect to the first texture.

Since I'm applying two textures it slows down the rendering.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
CL Wright
[e-mail]
Pecten International Company (a wholly owned subsidiary of Shell Oil Co)


##

Subject: Re: trace.last (octree?)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 11:47:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>

>
>     What's an octree?  I've seen the entry in the Preferences editor for
>     "Max # of Octrees" or whatever it is, but I don't really understand it.
>
>     Can I speed up rendering by reducing the number of octree's?  Will all
>     my objects render properly if I do?
> -----------------
> I think it has something to do with object intersection tests...
> I remember something about a method where a cube of space is
> split up into a tree structure that is traversed recursively, somehow,
> and used to determine where one object ends and another begins...
> It has been two years since I had it described to me, but
> it is a coded implmentation that seems to be pretty common...
> Imagine and Turbo silver both use it.. I heard that if you increase
> the size of your objects it speeds up rendering... I don't know
> why, but it does seem to work...
>
>

The way it was described on the list (perhaps by Mark Thompson??)
is that an octree is the way a 3D program subdivides space.
(I hope I'm getting this right... this is all from memory)

In actions where a ray is shot in some direction (ie: the camera is
looking this way - does it see any object there?) the program will
first check to see what octrees the ray would pass through.  It can
then forget about the objects that fall in other octrees, thus saving
time.  When it enters an occupied octree, it then does all the checking
of object positioning, etc.

I guess I should just try and see if scaling up the object so it
hits more octree areas would speed up rendering.  Seems to me that
if each octree box had less info in it, the program could take
better advantage of the tree structure, and would benefit immensely.

I'll let you know sometime.
Scott


##

Subject: Color Guide
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 12:54:53 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

> |
>     There was a large list in the Archives.  I can't recall the name.
>     You will probably get a response from someone who knows.  I haven't
>     been working a lot with Imagine lately so my memory fails me.  The
>     answer is yes the info exists.  If I run accross it, I'll let you
>     know.
>
>     Dale


Does anyone know where this list is that Dale mentions?  If so, lemme
know, please.

Also, I have grabbed the /usr/lib/X11/rbg.txt file and edited
out the chaff to get it down to 132 colors (from over 700).  If anyone
is interested in this, lemme know, I'll e-mail it to ya.


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: VistaPro and Imagine
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 13:43:39 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

> I just made a mountain and foothills using taraform (terrain builder?) whatever
> it's called, and VistaPro 3.0 (bugfixed version).  It worked fine.  I don't
> remember how VistaPro 1.0 worked.  I seem to remember having to load it into
> Turbo silver first then saving and loading it into Imagine. All Amiga version
> of course :-).

   Thanks for this info, Brian.

   It sounds like VistaPro 3.0 is capable of creating Imagine objects.
It seems that I'm screwed with my VistaPro 1.0 for PC then,
because there's no PC version of Turbo Silver.  O.K.  So my big question is...

Is VistaPro 3.0 available for the PC yet, and if so, can it be used to create
Imagine PC 2.0 objects?


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:24:53 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

> Is this VistaPro for PC or Amiga? Imagine should be able to import these
> objects anyway but just in case maybe try a landscape saved out of
> VistaPro 2.0 if you can.

  I only have VistaPro 1.0 for PC and Imagine PC 2.0, if the current version
of VistaPro  for PC's supports Imagine PC 2.0 object creation, I'd buy it.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Sorry for all the posts today, folks.]

> > 2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good sources for brushmaps available,
>
> You could look around a few FTP sites.

Any suggestions?  It's a great big world out there.

> Also, if you're willing to send for some to Australia the Sig that I'm
> a co-ordinator of here in Sydney has a > collection of Tiles Brushmaps

I'd be interested in this info, as I'm sure others on the list would be.
Please send it to my email address or the list.


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: Re: Brushmaps
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:32:02 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

Does anyone have a phone number for the stuff that Kevin mentioned,
mainly the Pro-Textures packages from Amazing Computers and whoever puts out the
Profills textures.

I'm anxiously awaiting John Fousts CD-ROM, what's the expected release date,
John?

Kevin said:
> p.s. there is also a commercial BBS that specializes in beautiful JPEG and GIF
> textures, they advertised in the premiere issue of Desktop Video World,

Please post this phone number, I'd like to do a little surfing on this BBS.


ciao for now,
Mark


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject:  Animations
Date: Tue Jun 22 06:48:59 1993
From: [e-mail]

I too render everthing I do in 24 bit frames (768x482).  I use a PD program
called Rend 24 to convert the frames for Anim-5 animation; and recently using
MakeAnim7 (included with VT) to convert to Anim-7.  I understand that Anim-7
is the fastest playback format available, but you give up size to Anim 5.
Rend 24 will wait for Imagine to render each frame, if you so choose, and
build the anim (deleting or saving the original frame) as Imagine works.  It
will output HAM or DCTV format and will scale (half-size) your frames (so your
stills are still hi-res but your anim is lo-res as desired).


##

Subject: MPEG ??? what resolution is correct?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 16:22:01 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>


Hi all, I'm getting ready to convert the OMNISCIENT anim (A large
animation I am working on) to MPEG format.

I was reading the docs with the encoder I found and it says for xing
(the mpeg sub-standard for windows) the resolution is only something
like 220x170???  Gee wiz, that is pretty small.
Is there a set limit to the resolution for you MAC mpeg viewers?

Maybe I will take a look at it at that size, but I would like it to be
legible!

Any input apprecieted,

Adam B.



##

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 19:26:47 MST
From: [e-mail]

>There is a stagefile re/compiler around but what about some neat
>programms for it.
>
>Stretch a animation to n files
>including an object sequence into a scene.
>How about advanced animation technques (gravity and so on)
>
>Lets talk about ISL as it is VERY imagine related :-)
>
>HANNES

Hannes:

ISL is indeed a very cool utility for Imagine. Thank John Grieggs for writing
( I hope I remembered his name right)

I have written ARexx scripts that manipulate ISL staging files in the
following ways:

1) Stretch or compress an existing staging file to n frames including
   all framecounts found within the various 'timelines'.

2) A program that takes a series of objects as arguments and then creates
   a staging file that repeatedly morphs one actor line between the multiple
   objects over and over and over....

3) A program that reads the keyframe position and rotation data from a
   designated object, then clones the object to another actor line with
   a random generator that offsets the new object from the original. This
   is done any number of times to create such things as schools of swimming
   fish and flock of birds. Using the previous script, they wiggle or fly
   respectively as well as having fields of tall waving grass.

4) A program the reads the ISL staging file and extracts the object names
   and other pertinent data for purposes of archival. I list helps me
   keep track of what object files I have to restore to play around with
   old projects.

The first and last scripts were inluded with early releases of ISL. However,
John removed them from the distribution because they did not support ISL
syntax in it's entirety. These programs work well for me and are fun to
play with ( I am not an accomplished programmer, which is proof anyone
can work with Arexx :)

Anyway, Hannes, I am surprised more people have not responded to your
invitation to discuss ISL. Between it and T3D, Imagine has a pretty good
substitute for an Arexx port.




##

Subject: Re: Buggy Imagine Pc Buggy
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:51:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    |I bet the programmer(s??) of Imagine doesn't even have a Masters,
    |Probably not even a bachelors... It is so obvious..

    I promised myself I would stay out of this, but I'd like to try and head
    off an Amiga v. PC bashfest like comp.graphics has been seeing...

    First off, regarding CBM trying harder...

    Kiernan said, "If the users compalin about the computers, CBM would work
    harder to impress the users."

    CBM is a rather unusual company.  The CEO & president, Mehdi Ali, calls all
    of the shots.  All of them.  His decisions reflect where he thinks he can
    make money next *quarter*.  Not next year.  Not the next 5 years.  The next
    3 months.  What the engineers design and what the company releases often have
    little in common.  The first spec. for the AA machine (1200 & 4000) called for
    up to 8M of graphics memory and an on-board DSP with CODECs for audio and
    telephone.  Look at what actually shipped.  The first design for what became
    the 4000 called for a machine with an '030, SCSI and DSP on board, and in a
    package that would retail for $995.  Instead out came the 4000 at ~$2800.

    How do I know this?  I used to work there.  I was layed off in this year's
    second downsizing in April.  As for CBM abandoning the Amiga, they may not
    need to.)  They may abandon the business world first.  (For those that haven't
    heard, CBM posted a first quarter loss of ~$177 million.  This prompted the 3rd
    round of layoffs last Friday.  Companywide it amounted to ~65% staff reduction.)

    As for buggy Amiga programs...

    Have you written much SW for the Amiga?  How about the PC?  I've written for
    both.   SW can be very portable between the two *IF* you plan to support that
    from the outset.  SW that's written expressly for the PC is painful to port to
    the Amiga, and vice versa.  On the Amiga, you query the display database for
    the type of screen you want (resolution, number of colors, PAL/NTSC, etc) and
    you are given a "magic number"  that you pass to the OS's display routines.
--------------
Is it a magic number or is it a set of flags. To me, a magic number
is a number that has no easy to describe idea behind it, is purely kludged
or made up as a quick fix, that seems to work, and isn't given any name.
I mean, if you are using CGA mode on a PC, there is a set of flags and
values used for each character and each pixel... Is the magic number
an address of a memory location which contains an address of the first
pixel in memory, or something like that? If you know what it means, then
it isn't a magic number...  I have written programs in AmigaE that
call screens and windows, but I didn't know what half the numbers
used to open a window and a screen meant.. Is this CBM's
way of keeping control information secret?
---------------
    That's what you're seeing being mimiced in the PC.  I'm sure they used good
---------------
On the PC's you do something about as wierd... I remember reading about
how to open screens on a 8541 based graphics card.. It is like you
poke values in the graphics card using the OUT and IN operations to
determin the mode used, and you just hope that the card does what you
want it to. I tried it once, but the system went on the fritz and I
just decided to stick with the 10H graphics interrupt service calls
even though they don't support anything beyond 320x200 in 256 colors
(they do, but anything above AL=13H on a Int 10H with AH=00H
 is nonstandard... but interesting).
----------------
    (or at least reasonable) development practices, but those were focused on the
    Amiga environment.  Given the choice, I'd much rather port between the PC and
    UNIX (either direction) than port between either of those and the Amiga.
----------------
Why? The PC's don't even support standard UNIX-style filenames,
or even the directory structure... Did you know that MSDOS is limited
to 100 files per directory on floppy disks?? This means it will
not let you save files in a directory unless you create a sub-directory.
I would, if i was porting programs between systems, rather port
between Linux and UNIX, not MSDOS and UNIX, than Amiga and UNIX.

Couldn't you just create classes in C++ to mimic all the functions
(I don't know how to do this exactly, but I know it can be done)
needed on a general level... When you port between the machines
you would only need to re-implement the functions that are hidden
within the scope of each class, this way you wouldn't have to rewrite
all the extra code needed to perform the non-specific functions
like opening screens, checking screen dimensions, setting screen
dimensions, defining errors, handling screens and windows, handling
I/O, etc. Once you have written your program on this level, then
you write the code to do the low-level work and the interfacing
between the general software and the operating system used..
If you don't break the rules and try poking values directly into the
hardware with assembly from the general part of the program, the
code should port very easily. You could use C, but C++ makes
it easier since you are not always having to look up functions
in libraries, and you don't have to worry about which data
is supposed to be passed to a function, that is all handled
by C++...  I mean, you may have a function that needs
a address value for the screen and some special sauce passed to
a function "winadr *OpenWindow(screentype,specialtype) ",
instead in C++ you could overload the "=" operator to handle screens
and windows on the Amiga and Unix and
use "new window ; window = currentscreen"..

I have a friend who says his brother is working on an operating system
that will be entirely written in C++ and he will need only about 8000
lines of machine code to interface the operating system to any machine..
Making it very very portable.
-----------
    Remember, the original Amiga team was building a game machine, not a micro-
    computer.  They apparently saw nothing to be gained by modeling their OS
-----------
Whether they built it for a video game machine or a business machine,
it doesn't matter.. PC's are no mirracle... What do you call
modeling a operating system after CPM?? a Business operating system...
No a silly piece of archaic sh*t. MSDOS thinks it only has 2^20 address
lines and it was designed entirely around memory mapping and interrupt
service calls and 64K data,code,stack and extra segments..
At least the AMiga is dynamic in its placement of resources and
allocation of memory, the way it should be.
------------
    interface after anyone else.  The engineers at CBM have tried to improve
    things, but that is difficult without throwing a lot of stuff out and starting
    over.  The changes they have made have been for the better, but SW written
-------------
ya.. Just talk to Microsoft, they are having to work at a snails pace
and carefully to maintain its userbase without aggrevating the developers..
I think Amigados is designed much better,and was because it was
developed 3 years after MSDOS, the programmers of Amigados and the
CBM engineers came from all walks of life as far as operating systems
went... Why do you think Amigados has dynamically linkable libraries,
dynamic allocation of memory, multi-tasking and 25 character filenames??
Jay Miner's original plans were to create a video game system, which
was going to have a somewhat different design than the Amiga 1000,
but in the last few years between paying Atari back for the loan
they gave him when he started out and making a deal with CBM to
make the machine, he decided to aim the Amiga at the personal
computing market. The original idea was to make it a video game machine
but that wasn't the idea when it was released...
-------------
(extra stuff deleted)
-------------
    I'm trying not to defend or accuse anyone here, I'm just trying to present
    the facts of the situation.  Anything that was written expressly for one
    environment is going to take time to get working correctly in another.  If
    you want to be able to run on both Amiga & PC you need to design that in
    early on.  The game "Lemmings 2" is one example that comes to mind of a
--------------
No you don't... You can write software for any machine if you design
it in a way that it can... It is not impossible, it may be hard, but
it is not impossible. All you need to do is know what to expect,
a disk drive, hard drive possibly, graphics output, I/O interface,
joystick controller, sound system, etc. In short, you write a
interface between the part that will run the program and the
operating system. Any graphics screens, calls, such will be handed
to the interface between the program and the operating system.
The program can be designed on a higher level without sacrificing
speed using C++. Then when you need to port the game all you need
to do is rewrite the interface between the game and the operating system.
I guess this is what they call a virtual system, I don't know,
but I would think that it is more dynamic than something that
is directly written on the operating system for the operating system.
--------------
    program designed for either environment.


##

Subject: Phong problems
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 16:53:38 -0300
From: [e-mail]

Hello,

I have a problem when converting objects to TDDD (Imagine) using
Pixel 3D: I can't make an object to have smooth surfaces. I tried
"PHONG" in the attributes panel and even "MAKE SOFT". Nothing
works!

HELP!
Christian Leyen ([e-mail])


##

Subject: Re: MPEG ??? what resolution is correct?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:59:50 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Brad Donison)

At  4:22 PM 25/6/93 -0500, Adam Benjamin wrote:
>Hi all, I'm getting ready to convert the OMNISCIENT anim (A large
>animation I am working on) to MPEG format.
>
>I was reading the docs with the encoder I found and it says for xing
>(the mpeg sub-standard for windows) the resolution is only something
>like 220x170???  Gee wiz, that is pretty small.
>Is there a set limit to the resolution for you MAC mpeg viewers?
>
>Maybe I will take a look at it at that size, but I would like it to be
>legible!
>
>Any input apprecieted,
>
>Adam B.

The "standard" size of MPEG video is 352 x 240, but XING has video modes
for 320 x 240 and 160 x 120 only.  These are viewing modes, not internal
modes.  I assume that XING just does some conversion to the perferred
viewing size, I don't know the actual resolution that it accepts, but I
haven't had any problems with 320 x 240 video clips.  It may be that the
limitations are imposed by pvrgmpeg and not by the XING decoder???  I
suggest that you try to convert to the largest MPEG resolution possible
with the encoding software, upload it and myself and others can try it out.
 If we can't view it then we can let you know and you could try using a
smaller resolution.
1) 352 x 240
2) 320 x 240
3) 160 x 120

Then after this first run we should know what resolution we can use.

The PVRGMPEG doc file states:
>The XING player files must be 160*120 and this is not give a very clear picture
>for objetcs/people that are in the distance of the shot.

As I said before, I don't know where this figure comes from as I can view
320 x 240 MPEG video clips without problems on XING's latest MPEG viewer
mfw?

Brad...
(*------------------------------------------------------------------------*)
 * Brad Donison Network Administrator for the Education Technology Centre *
 * [e-mail]      OR [e-mail]                     *
 * [e-mail]             ORE [e-mail]             *
(* (this space for rent, no reasonable offer refused =>                )  *)



##

Subject: Re: Imagine3.0, Essence, and copyrights
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 18:14:15 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)


> I think someone may have released a whole bunch of attributes with these
> different names but can't remember if I have them anywhere. Can anyone
> else help?

I grabbed the rgb.txt file from the VAX here - looks very interesting.
Also, Louis Markoya (sp?) put out two commercial packages, "Map Master"
and "Surface Master" which both have a lot of Imagine Attribute files,
ready for loading into Detail ed. and applying to your objects.  Both
also have lots of example IFF's that show what certain combinations of
Filter/Reflect etc... look like.  Very handy.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer


##

Subject: Re: trace.last (octree?)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 18:39:51 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    I guess I should just try and see if scaling up the object so it
    hits more octree areas would speed up rendering.  Seems to me that
    if each octree box had less info in it, the program could take
    better advantage of the tree structure, and would benefit immensely.

    I'll let you know sometime.
    Scott
------------------------------------------
Hmmm... Looks like a I need a class in computer graphics...
Unforntunately, the nearest I can come is a 400 level course
where you program ray-tracing programs.. I have already talked
with my advisor and he said that I don't need the course
and if I took it it would register as an elective... Ughh...
Well maybe, 3 years from now I will still be interested in
it enough to take the course.

I understand the part about subdividing space and such, but I
don't understand, on a programming/mathimatical level why
it is much better to increase the size of the objects so
that less of an object ends up in each octree.

Is there one octree?? Or is thier 8, or is there one that
is recursively constructed, like a fractal, to infinity..
I don't know, in my mind, how to construct the universe
according to octrees..


##

Subject: Re: MPEG ??? what resolution is correct?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 20:02:42 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    I was reading the docs with the encoder I found and it says for xing
    (the mpeg sub-standard for windows) the resolution is only something
    like 220x170???  Gee wiz, that is pretty small.
    Is there a set limit to the resolution for you MAC mpeg viewers?
------------------------
Really, it isn't that bad... I make animations at 320x200 on my Amiga
that take up a quite a lot of space (3 megs) but I can't
get as many frames in as I have seen with Xingpeg. I have seen
820 frame animations with Xingpeg that last for 15 seconds
and are pretty colorful, not to mention fast...


##

Subject: Gras again
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 00:38:28 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

Well here are the stats of my render:
Total rays:                     64320
Intersecting rays:              38323 (59.582%)
Supersampled pixels:            1038
B.V. intersection tests:        347436
Plane intersection tests:       64320 (38323 hit, 59.581779%)
Triangle intersection tests:    167345 (49464 hit, 29.558099%)
Total prim. intersection tests: 231665 (87787 hit, 37.893942%)
Total CPU time (sec):           871.74 (871.17u + 0.57s)
Seconds / ray:                  0.0136
Seconds / intersecting ray:     0.0227
Total memory allocated:         1966650 bytes

-----
Yes, it took 15 minutes to render 1.5 million primitives
at 320x200, with a brush map, 1 light, and an infinite ground.
I'll JPEG the picture and download it...
and see how it came out.


##

Subject: oh wa tay goo siam
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 00:34:40 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

Well,  I just tried the test to see if grass could be made with polygon
shapes... I haven't seen the output yet, but I made a 3190 primitive
clump of grass and instantiated it 500 times within 30000 units.
It took me awhile to make the C program to randomnly place the
clumps (on a 2400 baud line this takes longer than it would if
I would have been there). Anyways, to show what kind of power
this decstation has, it is now rendering 1.5 million primitives
and it is taking just as long to do a straight render as it
takes to do a ray-tracing... ;-) Seems like all that talk
about intersections and calculations was right... well last
I looked it was 300 seconds into the render and and finished line 30
of a 320x200 render.

There is one additive, I put a grass brush map on the objects
so that may have jacked the rendering time up a magnitude.
I can't wait to see how much memory the rendering took.

Kiernan

PS- just for the heck of it, if the program doesn't crash our
system, I will put the picture on wuarchive for everyone to get alook
at.


##

Subject: Grass again part 2, the wrath of Kiernan
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 00:47:05 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

Ok... it looked like grass to me... The only problem is I saturated
the ground with it and it looked like a lawnmower man's nightmare....
(pun intended)... I will try to do another test but with a
less dense field.... Something like 120 thousand units instead of 30.
And I will stop mailing you guys until I have a perfect field of
grass... Later..

Kiernan


##

Subject: Re: Fred Fish
Date: 25 Jun 1993 13:36:00 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Jean Pepin)

[e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan) writes:


>---------
>Well then, FISH is obviously superior...
>---------

Yes Fish collection is most commercial, but in contain way CAM is far
superior. Chineese proverb: Big announce, little store.:)

>---------
>Big whoopee... I can afford zilch... I would rather download 20
>fish disks from my local Internet access through a anonymous
>ftp site

For how much time? Fred is most tired then me to work for nothing$.

>than buy some stupid silly frech magazine which is
>probably written in french, which I don't speak or read...

Your attitude about french culture is a bit lack of spirit aperture, if
all other culture think like that, the lowest Americanism culture was not
the most spreaded. In other word, i agree with you. :)). This stupid
magazine, write about 3 PD collections incuding Fish, i think is it most a
sign of knowledge.

>Get it into your head... we Internet users who have access to FTP
>and Telnet do not pay for disk magazines. Some do, but they
>probably don't have the time to mine the Amiga disk collections.
>I do, and I am not going to bite the hand of the Internet that feeds
>me. If you can't afford a CDROM or a Internet link, you might
>as well get the disk magazines but to tell you the truth I haven't
>bought a disk magazine since 3 years ago, and I don't intend to,
>even if the taste is of superb quality.

If you are not interested to CAM, why you asked me for information?
Amiga News is not a disk magazine. This is the only publication talk about
CAM, i'm sorry but you ask me for more information. If you understand more
the New York language. "What do you want?". :)

>Have you ever heard of the CD-ROM disk magazine for the PC's
>called Nautilus?? Each magazine comes with 20 megs of sampled
>sound, some even have videos and you can get a years subscription
>for 120 dollars.. This is the kind of stuff people are looking
>for, not individual floppy disks full of maybe 4 or 5 programs
>that cost you 12 dollars to purchase and probably are not
>as useful as they claim to be... I could be wrong, but
>I know what can be done and should be done if you want CAM
>to become as big as the Fred Fish disk collection...

No, i'm only related to Amiga, i follow 1 rabbit at a time. I don't want
noting more for CAM, CAM is already better than Fish in term of contain,
Business is not my Goal.
--
\***  CCC AAA M   M  CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL           ------- Internet -------
***   C   A A MM MM  3501 Cote Ste-Catherine #212 |   [e-mail]   |
***** C   AAA M M M  Montreal, Quebec H3T 1Z8      ------------------------
 ***  CCC A A M   M  [phone]                Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
---------------------------Le bon sens c'est CAM-------------------------->


##

Subject: Color list (about 600 lines)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 08:21:01 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bandy)

Everybody is asking about the color list but given the latest talk about
long postings is afraid to post it.  Bullshit - here's Steve Worley's
list from a while back.  His header remains (give credit where credit
is due.)

--

Mike Bandy      [e-mail]
Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Laboratory

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From [e-mail]  Thu Nov 14 17:25:01 1991
Received: by aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (5.57/Ultrix2.4-XDccg)
    id AA15931; Thu, 14 Nov 91 17:25:01 -0500
Received: from updike.sri.com by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP
    id AA13376; Thu, 14 Nov 91 16:50:19 EST
Received: by updike.sri.com (4.1/5.15)
    id AA25097; Thu, 14 Nov 91 13:50:16 PST
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 13:50:16 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Color question
Status: R

Mike Izario wrote to me asking for a list of color values to use, especially
when you are entering textures and don't have sliders to manipulate. Here
is the list I use: it's based on a standard color list used in X windows. I
thought everyone might want to have a copy...

Enjoy!

-Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 R   G   B              name
-----------             -----------
255 250 250        snow
248 248 255        ghost white
245 245 245        white smoke
220 220 220        gainsboro
255 250 240        floral white
253 245 230        old lace
250 240 230        linen
250 235 215        antique white
255 239 213        papaya whip
255 235 205        blanched almond
255 228 196        bisque
255 218 185        peach puff
255 222 173        navajo white
255 228 181        moccasin
255 248 220        cornsilk
255 255 240        ivory
255 250 205        lemon chiffon
255 245 238        seashell
240 255 240        honeydew
245 255 250        mint cream
240 255 255        azure
240 248 255        alice blue
230 230 250        lavender
255 240 245        lavender blush
255 228 225        misty rose
255 255 255        white
  0   0   0        black
 47  79  79        dark slate gray
105 105 105        dim gray
112 128 144        slate gray
119 136 153        light slate grey
192 192 192        grey
211 211 211        light grey
 25  25 112        midnight blue
  0   0 128        navy
  0   0 128        navy blue
100 149 237        cornflower blue
 72  61 139        dark slate blue
106  90 205        slate blue
123 104 238        medium slate blue
132 112 255        light slate blue
  0   0 205        medium blue
 65 105 225        royal blue
  0   0 255        blue
 30 144 255        dodger blue
  0 191 255        deep sky blue
135 206 235        sky blue
135 206 250        light sky blue
 70 130 180        steel blue
176 196 222        light steel blue
173 216 230        light blue
176 224 230        powder blue
175 238 238        pale turquoise
  0 206 209        dark turquoise
 72 209 204        medium turquoise
 64 224 208        turquoise
  0 255 255        cyan
224 255 255        light cyan
 95 158 160        cadet blue
102 205 170        medium aquamarine
127 255 212        aquamarine
  0 100   0        dark green
 85 107  47        dark olive green
143 188 143        dark sea green
 46 139  87        sea green
 60 179 113        medium sea green
 32 178 170        light sea green
152 251 152        pale green
  0 255 127        spring green
124 252   0        lawn green
  0 255   0        green
127 255   0        chartreuse
  0 250 154        medium spring green
173 255  47        green yellow
 50 205  50        lime green
154 205  50        yellow green
 34 139  34        forest green
107 142  35        olive drab
189 183 107        dark khaki
240 230 140        khaki
238 232 170        pale goldenrod
250 250 210        light goldenrod yellow
255 255 224        light yellow
255 255   0        yellow
255 215   0         gold
238 221 130        light goldenrod
218 165  32        goldenrod
114  83 250             cool worley
184 134  11        dark goldenrod
188 143 143        rosy brown
205  92  92        indian red
139  69  19        saddle brown
160  82  45        sienna
205 133  63        peru
222 184 135        burlywood
245 245 220        beige
245 222 179        wheat
244 164  96        sandy brown
210 180 140        tan
210 105  30        chocolate
178  34  34        firebrick
165  42  42        brown
233 150 122        dark salmon
250 128 114        salmon
255 160 122        light salmon
255 165   0        orange
255 140   0        dark orange
255 127  80        coral
240 128 128        light coral
255  99  71        tomato
255  69   0        orange red
255   0   0        red
255 105 180        hot pink
255  20 147        deep pink
255 192 203        pink
255 182 193        light pink
219 112 147        pale violet red
176  48  96        maroon
199  21 133        medium violet red
208  32 144        violet red
255   0 255        magenta
238 130 238        violet
221 160 221        plum
218 112 214        orchid
186  85 211        medium orchid
153  50 204        dark orchid
148   0 211        dark violet
138  43 226        blue violet
160  32 240        purple
147 112 219        medium purple
216 191 216        thistle

Variants:

 R   G   B              Name
-----------             -----
255 250 250        snow1
238 233 233        snow2
205 201 201        snow3
139 137 137        snow4
255 245 238        seashell1
238 229 222        seashell2
205 197 191        seashell3
139 134 130        seashell4
255 239 219        AntiqueWhite1
238 223 204        AntiqueWhite2
205 192 176        AntiqueWhite3
139 131 120        AntiqueWhite4
255 228 196        bisque1
238 213 183        bisque2
205 183 158        bisque3
139 125 107        bisque4
255 218 185        PeachPuff1
238 203 173        PeachPuff2
205 175 149        PeachPuff3
139 119 101        PeachPuff4
255 222 173        NavajoWhite1
238 207 161        NavajoWhite2
205 179 139        NavajoWhite3
139 121     94        NavajoWhite4
255 250 205        LemonChiffon1
238 233 191        LemonChiffon2
205 201 165        LemonChiffon3
139 137 112        LemonChiffon4
255 248 220        cornsilk1
238 232 205        cornsilk2
205 200 177        cornsilk3
139 136 120        cornsilk4
255 255 240        ivory1
238 238 224        ivory2
205 205 193        ivory3
139 139 131        ivory4
240 255 240        honeydew1
224 238 224        honeydew2
193 205 193        honeydew3
131 139 131        honeydew4
255 240 245        LavenderBlush1
238 224 229        LavenderBlush2
205 193 197        LavenderBlush3
139 131 134        LavenderBlush4
255 228 225        MistyRose1
238 213 210        MistyRose2
205 183 181        MistyRose3
139 125 123        MistyRose4
240 255 255        azure1
224 238 238        azure2
193 205 205        azure3
131 139 139        azure4
131 111 255        SlateBlue1
122 103 238        SlateBlue2
105  89 205        SlateBlue3
 71  60 139        SlateBlue4
 72 118 255        RoyalBlue1
 67 110 238        RoyalBlue2
 58  95 205        RoyalBlue3
 39  64 139        RoyalBlue4
  0   0 255        blue1
  0   0 238        blue2
  0   0 205        blue3
  0   0 139        blue4
 30 144 255        DodgerBlue1
 28 134 238        DodgerBlue2
 24 116 205        DodgerBlue3
 16  78 139        DodgerBlue4
 99 184 255        SteelBlue1
 92 172 238        SteelBlue2
 79 148 205        SteelBlue3
 54 100 139        SteelBlue4
  0 191 255        DeepSkyBlue1
  0 178 238        DeepSkyBlue2
  0 154 205        DeepSkyBlue3
  0 104 139        DeepSkyBlue4
135 206 255        SkyBlue1
126 192 238        SkyBlue2
108 166 205        SkyBlue3
 74 112 139        SkyBlue4
176 226 255        LightSkyBlue1
164 211 238        LightSkyBlue2
141 182 205        LightSkyBlue3
 96 123 139        LightSkyBlue4
198 226 255        SlateGray1
185 211 238        SlateGray2
159 182 205        SlateGray3
108 123 139        SlateGray4
202 225 255        LightSteelBlue1
188 210 238        LightSteelBlue2
162 181 205        LightSteelBlue3
110 123 139        LightSteelBlue4
191 239 255        LightBlue1
178 223 238        LightBlue2
154 192 205        LightBlue3
104 131 139        LightBlue4
224 255 255        LightCyan1
209 238 238        LightCyan2
180 205 205        LightCyan3
122 139 139        LightCyan4
187 255 255        PaleTurquoise1
174 238 238        PaleTurquoise2
150 205 205        PaleTurquoise3
102 139 139        PaleTurquoise4
152 245 255        CadetBlue1
142 229 238        CadetBlue2
122 197 205        CadetBlue3
 83 134 139        CadetBlue4
  0 245 255        turquoise1
  0 229 238        turquoise2
  0 197 205        turquoise3
  0 134 139        turquoise4
  0 255 255        cyan1
  0 238 238        cyan2
  0 205 205        cyan3
  0 139 139        cyan4
151 255 255        DarkSlateGray1
141 238 238        DarkSlateGray2
121 205 205        DarkSlateGray3
 82 139 139        DarkSlateGray4
127 255 212        aquamarine1
118 238 198        aquamarine2
102 205 170        aquamarine3
 69 139 116        aquamarine4
193 255 193        DarkSeaGreen1
180 238 180        DarkSeaGreen2
155 205 155        DarkSeaGreen3
105 139 105        DarkSeaGreen4
 84 255 159        SeaGreen1
 78 238 148        SeaGreen2
 67 205 128        SeaGreen3
 46 139     87        SeaGreen4
154 255 154        PaleGreen1
144 238 144        PaleGreen2
124 205 124        PaleGreen3
 84 139     84        PaleGreen4
  0 255 127        SpringGreen1
  0 238 118        SpringGreen2
  0 205 102        SpringGreen3
  0 139     69        SpringGreen4
  0 255      0        green1
  0 238      0        green2
  0 205      0        green3
  0 139      0        green4
127 255      0        chartreuse1
118 238      0        chartreuse2
102 205      0        chartreuse3
 69 139      0        chartreuse4
192 255     62        OliveDrab1
179 238     58        OliveDrab2
154 205     50        OliveDrab3
105 139     34        OliveDrab4
202 255 112        DarkOliveGreen1
188 238 104        DarkOliveGreen2
162 205     90        DarkOliveGreen3
110 139     61        DarkOliveGreen4
255 246 143        khaki1
238 230 133        khaki2
205 198 115        khaki3
139 134     78        khaki4
255 236 139        LightGoldenrod1
238 220 130        LightGoldenrod2
205 190 112        LightGoldenrod3
139 129     76        LightGoldenrod4
255 255 224        LightYellow1
238 238 209        LightYellow2
205 205 180        LightYellow3
139 139 122        LightYellow4
255 255      0        yellow1
238 238      0        yellow2
205 205      0        yellow3
139 139      0        yellow4
255 215      0        gold1
238 201      0        gold2
205 173      0        gold3
139 117      0        gold4
255 193     37        goldenrod1
238 180     34        goldenrod2
205 155     29        goldenrod3
139 105     20        goldenrod4
255 185     15        DarkGoldenrod1
238 173     14        DarkGoldenrod2
205 149     12        DarkGoldenrod3
139 101      8        DarkGoldenrod4
255 193 193        RosyBrown1
238 180 180        RosyBrown2
205 155 155        RosyBrown3
139 105 105        RosyBrown4
255 106 106        IndianRed1
238  99     99        IndianRed2
205  85     85        IndianRed3
139  58     58        IndianRed4
255 130     71        sienna1
238 121     66        sienna2
205 104     57        sienna3
139  71     38        sienna4
255 211 155        burlywood1
238 197 145        burlywood2
205 170 125        burlywood3
139 115     85        burlywood4
255 231 186        wheat1
238 216 174        wheat2
205 186 150        wheat3
139 126 102        wheat4
255 165     79        tan1
238 154     73        tan2
205 133     63        tan3
139  90     43        tan4
255 127     36        chocolate1
238 118     33        chocolate2
205 102     29        chocolate3
139  69     19        chocolate4
255  48     48        firebrick1
238  44     44        firebrick2
205  38     38        firebrick3
139  26     26        firebrick4
255  64     64        brown1
238  59     59        brown2
205  51     51        brown3
139  35     35        brown4
255 140 105        salmon1
238 130     98        salmon2
205 112     84        salmon3
139  76     57        salmon4
255 160 122        LightSalmon1
238 149 114        LightSalmon2
205 129     98        LightSalmon3
139  87     66        LightSalmon4
255 165      0        orange1
238 154      0        orange2
205 133      0        orange3
139  90      0        orange4
255 127      0        DarkOrange1
238 118      0        DarkOrange2
205 102      0        DarkOrange3
139  69      0        DarkOrange4
255 114     86        coral1
238 106     80        coral2
205  91     69        coral3
139  62     47        coral4
255  99     71        tomato1
238  92     66        tomato2
205  79     57        tomato3
139  54     38        tomato4
255  69      0        OrangeRed1
238  64      0        OrangeRed2
205  55      0        OrangeRed3
139  37      0        OrangeRed4
255   0      0        red1
238   0      0        red2
205   0      0        red3
139   0      0        red4
255  20 147        DeepPink1
238  18 137        DeepPink2
205  16 118        DeepPink3
139  10     80        DeepPink4
255 110 180        HotPink1
238 106 167        HotPink2
205  96 144        HotPink3
139  58  98        HotPink4
255 181 197        pink1
238 169 184        pink2
205 145 158        pink3
139  99 108        pink4
255 174 185        LightPink1
238 162 173        LightPink2
205 140 149        LightPink3
139  95 101        LightPink4
255 130 171        PaleVioletRed1
238 121 159        PaleVioletRed2
205 104 137        PaleVioletRed3
139  71     93        PaleVioletRed4
255  52 179        maroon1
238  48 167        maroon2
205  41 144        maroon3
139  28     98        maroon4
255  62 150        VioletRed1
238  58 140        VioletRed2
205  50 120        VioletRed3
139  34     82        VioletRed4
255   0 255        magenta1
238   0 238        magenta2
205   0 205        magenta3
139   0 139        magenta4
255 131 250        orchid1
238 122 233        orchid2
205 105 201        orchid3
139  71 137        orchid4
255 187 255        plum1
238 174 238        plum2
205 150 205        plum3
139 102 139        plum4
224 102 255        MediumOrchid1
209  95 238        MediumOrchid2
180  82 205        MediumOrchid3
122  55 139        MediumOrchid4
191  62 255        DarkOrchid1
178  58 238        DarkOrchid2
154  50 205        DarkOrchid3
104  34 139        DarkOrchid4
155  48 255        purple1
145  44 238        purple2
125  38 205        purple3
 85  26 139        purple4
171 130 255        MediumPurple1
159 121 238        MediumPurple2
137 104 205        MediumPurple3
 93  71 139        MediumPurple4
255 225 255        thistle1
238 210 238        thistle2
205 181 205        thistle3
139 123 139        thistle4
  0   0   0        grey0
  3   3   3        grey1
  5   5   5        grey2
 10  10  10         gray4
 13  13  13         gray5
 15  15  15         gray6
 18  18  18         gray7
 20  20  20         gray8
 23  23  23         gray9
 26  26  26         gray10
 28  28  28         gray11
 31  31  31         gray12
 33  33  33         gray13
 36  36  36         gray14
 38  38  38         gray15
 41  41  41         gray16
 43  43  43         gray17
 46  46  46         gray18
 48  48  48         gray19
 51  51  51         gray20
 54  54  54         gray21
 56  56  56         gray22
 59  59  59         gray23
 61  61  61         gray24
 64  64  64         gray25
 66  66  66         gray26
 69  69  69         gray27
 71  71  71         gray28
 74  74  74         gray29
 77  77  77         gray30
 79  79  79         gray31
 82  82  82         gray32
 84  84  84         gray33
 87  87  87         gray34
 89  89  89         gray35
 92  92  92         gray36
 94  94  94         gray37
 97  97  97         gray38
 99  99  99         gray39
102 102 102         gray40
105 105 105         gray41
107 107 107         gray42
110 110 110         gray43
112 112 112         gray44
115 115 115         gray45
117 117 117         gray46
120 120 120         gray47
122 122 122         gray48
125 125 125         gray49
127 127 127         gray50
130 130 130         gray51
133 133 133         gray52
135 135 135         gray53
138 138 138         gray54
140 140 140         gray55
143 143 143         gray56
145 145 145         gray57
148 148 148         gray58
150 150 150         gray59
153 153 153         gray60
156 156 156         gray61
158 158 158         gray62
161 161 161         gray63
163 163 163         gray64
166 166 166         gray65
168 168 168         gray66
171 171 171         gray67
173 173 173         gray68
176 176 176         gray69
179 179 179         gray70
181 181 181         gray71
184 184 184         gray72
186 186 186         gray73
189 189 189         gray74
191 191 191         gray75
194 194 194         gray76
196 196 196         gray77
199 199 199         gray78
201 201 201         gray79
204 204 204         gray80
207 207 207         gray81
209 209 209         gray82
212 212 212         gray83
214 214 214         gray84
217 217 217         gray85
219 219 219         gray86
222 222 222         gray87
224 224 224         gray88
227 227 227         gray89
229 229 229         gray90
232 232 232         gray91
235 235 235         gray92
237 237 237         gray93
240 240 240         gray94
242 242 242         gray95
245 245 245         gray96
247 247 247         gray97
250 250 250         gray98
252 252 252         gray99
255 255 255         gray100




##

Subject: RE: Phong Problems
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 10:29:59 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Marcelino Vilaubi)

>I have a problem when converting objects to TDDD (Imagine) using
>Pixel 3D: I can't make an object to have smooth surfaces. I tried
>"PHONG" in the attributes panel and even "MAKE SOFT". Nothing
>works!
>
>HELP!
>Christian Leyen ([e-mail])

Try performing a "merge" on the object after you get it into Imagine.
Pixel 3D created 3 points for every triangle, thus no phong. This
must be done when going to other formats. I believe it was fixed
in Pixel Professional.
Good luck,

    Mars
--
Marcelino Vilaubi
[e-mail]    [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: Color list (about 600 lines)
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 16:24:37 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

Thanks for the color list... That will be a big help in my animations...
I am now doing an animation that is about 530 frames long (I suspect
since I don't have any definite way of telling, the way I wrote
my code). It will probably take an entire week to render the animation...
At about 20 minutes per frame. It contains more than 12,000 primitives,
glass and some checkerboard patterns to give a feeling of movement...
It will be a cyclic animation at 384x240 in 24 bit color... JPEG'd
with a quality of 80. By the way, the grass ray-tracing is taking up 54%
of the CPU time on our VAX and 14% of the memory... I guess that
proves it, that doing grass with polgons is impossible to simulate...
But it ain't bad for doing 1.5 million polygons which is what
my scene came out to be... Actually 1590001 polgons exactly..

Next up... Morphing in Rayshade.. I don't know if I can do it, with rayshade
at least since it croaks on some objects, but I'm confident that
it will all work out the way I expect...

Later...

Thanks to Bandy for the color list...

Kiernan


##

Subject: Good Wood
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 03:11:59 -0300
From: [e-mail]

Hello,
one of these days, when trying to find a way to make the WOOD texture in
Imagine looks a little more realistic I fond this formula:

object RGB: 83 14 19

wood texture
RGB: 102 33 27
ring spacing: depend on the object's size

pastella texture
RGB1: 130 54 54
RGB2: 160 72 54
RGB3: 143 73 38
RGB4: 128 62 38
detail size: depends on the object's size

it looks VERY realistic when rendered using DCTV.(I didn't try in HAM)

Try and send more suggestions.

Christian Leyen ([e-mail])


##

Subject: long posts
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 23:56:12 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

can people immediately tell from looking at an amiga rendering which
package it was created on ? in the "old" days, it was easy, Sculpt and
Turbo Silver had very unique rendering styles...now ?
the reason i ask- i have been using Lightwave a lot more than Imagine
lately, and have gotten used to it's "look". I recently saw some
Imagine images (Amigaworld) and was struck at how "different" they looked..
besides the obvious "raytrace-scanline" thing, does any one want to
venture a guess why ?
the one control LW has which i miss in Imagine is the Diffusion setting,
where Imagine only controls specularity..it gives LW objects a flatter,
less "rendered" look IMHO.

kevin
[e-mail]


##

Subject: How's the Retina work with Imagine?
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 93 02:32:27 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)

I have heard much talk over this new graphics board.  If any of you
use it with Imagine, I'm curious.  What is the maximum resolution
that you have used when running the modeler? (detail, forms etc.)
Have you tried to output 24-bit to a VTR (single framing)?  What is the
largest resolution you can view (on a good monitior) a Imagine rendering?
And the most important question... Now that you have one, do you want your
money back?

I am seriously considering this board and the GVP EGS 110/24 (soon to
be released).
Thanks
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |read this R.M. of WB> This Imagineer for rent!|
\____________________________________________________________/


##

Subject: 3dfonts
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 10:00:13 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]

Hmm... wierd. My last post hansnt made it to the list yet.
Oh, well.

Last night I was working with a 3d font I downloaded a long time ago
from aminet. Strange thing was that in the stage editor I would load the
object. Scale it. Move it.  It looked fine.
Silly me, I expected it to REMAIN a 3dfont after I saved the stage,
moved to action editor. Did >NOTHING< and moved back.
Well no.  Somebody decided to make it a 2dfont while I was gone?
Whats up with this? I tried it several times and it keeps lossing
its 3d'ness. (Is that a word?)

Also, to repeat my self.  (Since I have got no confermation or denial)
Can I PLEASE get a sample or something of an essance thing?
Kinda like a demo?
Or at the least, ftp a essanced render to aminet for me? So I can see what
I would be buying! ;) (Gee, right about now my other post is prolly makeing it
to the list. And I will have repeated myself!)

Thanks all.

-Don


##

Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 93 13:58:23 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)

> ISL is indeed a very cool utility for Imagine. Thank John Grieggs for writing
> ( I hope I remembered his name right)
>
> I have written ARexx scripts that manipulate ISL staging files in the
> following ways:

Would the person who wrote this (I can't find your name/address anywhere
in your mail) please send me the Arexx scripts you were talking about?  My
address is at the bottom.  Thanks!

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer


##

Subject: Is there an AGA-supporting version of Imagine?
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 93 16:54:55 CST
From: [e-mail]

I am a fairly long-term user of Imagine (bought 1.0 when it first came out, and
upgraded to 2.0 as soon as it was available).  I thought I heard on the net
sometime ago that there was a 2.01 floating around that supported AGA input
and output (HAM8 files, etc, and ability to use different screenmodes like
Super72 or whatever).

However, I phoned Impulse and got an extremely rude gentleman on the other
end (no surprise there) who in short, told me I had been misinformed,
and that the fact that I had never received the last two Impulse newsletters
wasn't their fault.

Any ideas, people?  Not getting the last two newsletters has left me
a bit in the dark.  Any info appreciated on whether AGA support exists,
and if not, when it will arrive.  I had thought 3.0 was supposed to be out
by now.

* Chuck Cazabon, [e-mail]
* Amiga 4000 -- Warning:  Due to the graphic nature of this computer,
              software discretion is advised.



##

Subject: AT3D-Demo
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 0:03:22 CST
From: Jeff Niebergall <[e-mail]>

I just uploaded to wuarchive (128.252.135.4) in
pub/amiga/incoming a demo version of a new
3-D object conversion utility. It FULLY supports
DXF<>Imagine<>Lightwave and other fromats. The
programmer, Wayne Hogue is a member of our local
Amiga club but does not have internet access so
he asked me to upload it. The file is AT3D.lha and it
containes some sample DXF objects to try
with it as well. The demo version is limited
to objects with less than 99 points and does not save
preferences. It does however come with Commodore Installer
and has AmigaGuide online help included.

I will also shortly be uploading some JPG images that were
rendered in Imagine and modeled in AutoCad that were done
by one of the beta testers.

If anyone has any questions I would be happy to try and
answer them or pass them on to Wayne.

Jeff, [e-mail]



--


##

Subject: Re: long posts
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:04:23 EDT
From: watters <[e-mail]>

> can people immediately tell from looking at an amiga rendering which
> package it was created on ? in the "old" days, it was easy, Sculpt and
> Turbo Silver had very unique rendering styles...now ?

It is often easy for the trained eye to recognize images created with almost
any software someone has experience with.

For example Alias' software has a very distinctive look to it.

That is one of the beauties of CG programming, two people can implement the
same basic algorithm and yet the images produced will have their own look
and style to them.

It is becoming harder than the days of Sculpt's "the world is a shiny plastic
hell," VideoScapes "drab surfaces are in," and TurboSilver's "Gosh I really
like to dither" images.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993


##

Subject: DPS board and post content (was Re: June CAM disks listing (long))
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 09:48:32 EDT
From: watters <[e-mail]>

> Attention, Warning & Achtung.
> The following contain a very long listing for CAM disk released in early
> june. This is not related to this group but i receive some mail from this
> group for the CAMs contain sample. The file is an uuencoded of
> DP_Desc_June.RUN a self-dearchive LHA. And finally is a little bit commercial
> flavor posting.

After the last few Kholland posts and this thread about PD disks collection
I am now on John Foust's side, though I will use a less sharp tounge then
he is known for...

Can we at least keep the discussion on graphics.

I used the DPS Personal Animation Recorder this weekend.  The software/hardware
seemed very polished and you can tell that their focus on frame accurate
animation is the main reason.
The output was great, and without the aid of any scopes it looked very high
quality.

A must for anyone doing production animation, even if you already have a
frame accurate deck, as it's functionality makes it worth having, not to
mention the wear and tear it will save you and your VTR.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993


##

Subject: AGA Imagine
Date: 27 Jun 93 22:38:00 +2000
From: [e-mail]

If I remember correctly Impulse promised an AGA upgrade but then reneged
saying version 3.0 would address this problem. Version 3 was supposed to be out
now according to an ancient newletter I had recieved. I have Aladdin 2.1 and it
has AGA file format availibility-for anims as well as brushmaps. The software ha
s gone thru 3 upgrades since I bought it 4 months ago and version 3 is said to b
 be ready to ship by midwinter. I too have been usuing Imagine since 1.0 and
really can't understand Impulse's lack of support. Where's the 25th Annivesary
Star Trek object disk promised? What happened to their deal with Viewpoint for
pro objects? Why are Steve Worley & Glenn Lewis doing more for Imagine users
than the company that owns the software? I really don't want to use Imagine
just for modelling but if things don't change fairly soon I think alot of
people will do just that and rely on Interchange/PixelPro to move objects
to a better rendering program.



##

Subject: Brushmap collections
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:33:22 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

> > > > 2) Brush Maps:  Are there any good sources for brushmaps available,
> > >
> > > You could look around a few FTP sites.
> >
> > Any suggestions?  It's a great big world out there.
> >
> > > Also, if you're willing to send for some to Australia the Sig that I'm
> > > a co-ordinator of here in Sydney has a > collection of Tiles Brushmaps
> >
> > I'd be interested in this info, as I'm sure others on the list would be.
>
> Ok, there are two texture sets, 4 disks each. The vast majority of the
> images (tiles and patterns) have been set up for for the lack of a better
> word, - Tiling :-) (i.e.repeat Brushmap). The patterns were scanned in
> using an Epson Flatbed scanner (GT6000) at 24 bit and then prepared for
> tiling in Opal Paint.
> The files are all 24 Bit (IFF but for PC users we can convert to another
> format - probably JPEG would be easiest as TIFF blows out in size - or we
> can .lha the TIFF's).
> The images are of very good quality IMHO.
> The price - US$ 25 for one set or US$ 40 for both this including Airmail
> postage.
> If you remind me of it, I'll put up an example piccy using these after the
> 5th of July (remind me after the 5th as we have the World Of Commodore here in
> Sydney and it is going to be hectic) - I'll put it up on wuarchive.
>
> Nik.
>
> P.S. I haven't announced this directly on the list as this is
> a semi-commercial post and I didn't know how these are treated on the IML.
> If you think this would be OK to post on the list, maybe you can just
> include the above part on the list.

Nik,

Thanks for the info.  I'm sure it would be o.k. to post this info to
the list (especially in light of all the other chaff being posted) so I've
taken the liberty to CC this to the list.

I'd love to see some of the texture sample pictures uploaded to wuarchive.
As for IFF vs TIFF vs JPEG for brushmaps, I'd prefer TIFF even if they are
bigger, at least they're not lossy.  What would be really cool would be if you
could make up some contact sheets with a little swatch from each of
the textures and upload that.  If that's not possible, how about an
list of all the brushmaps in the sets?

thanks, and see ya,
Mark

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: Re: AT3D-Demo
Date: 28 Jun 93 13:34:00 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>

To: >internet: [e-mail]

[e-mail] writes:
> If anyone has any questions I would be happy to try and
> answer them or pass them on to Wayne.

Aside from what they say about imitation and flattery, at least tell
Wayne to give credit to Syndesis Corporation for portions of his
manual...

I can't be certain which version of the manual he used, but compare the
following passages from each.

In other words, he may have quoted more perfectly from an earlier version
of the manual, but I might not have kept a copy of that earlier version,
so here's what I was able to piece together by comparing against the last
two revisions of our manual:


AT3D Manual:                           Syndesis DXF Converter manual:

Transferring DXF Files                 Sharing Files

DXF files produced on other makes
of computer can be transferred to
the Amiga using MS-DOS formatted
floppy disks, by 'null modem'
cable or by modem.                     ...

On the IBM computer just copy the
DXF file to a MS-DOS formatted
floppy disk.  On the Macintosh use
the Apple File Exchange utility
(included with the system              Consultron sells CrossDOS, an
software) to copy the DXF file to      alternative file system that lets
You will have to use floppy disks      you transparently access MS-DOS
formatted for 720k bytes for the       disks as if they were ordinary
transfer unless your Amiga has         Amiga disks, for reading, writing
high density floppy drives             and formatting.  It also works
installed.  With high density          with both 3 1/2 and 5 1/4 inch
floppies the disks can be              drives.
formatted for 1.44 megabytes.  To
read the DXF files from the MS-DOS     For example, instead of selecting
disks on the Amiga use the             drive DF0:  in the InterChange
CrossDOS utility which is supplied     Available Files box, you'd select
with Workbench 2.1 and higher.  If     DI0:  and see the MS-DOS files on
you do not have CrossDOS it can be     the disk in drive DF0:.  This
purchased from its developer,          makes the translation process as
Consultron.                            simple as it can be.

Consultron                             Consultron
8959 Ridge Rd.                         11280 Parkview
Plymouth, MI  48170-3213               Plymouth, MI 48170

If the Amiga and the other             If nothing else, if the machines
computer are close to one another,     are near each other, you can use a
they can be connected with a 'null     "null modem" adapter with a serial
modem' cable, which is just a          cable and a telecommunication
serial cable.  Then with a             programs to send the file from the
telecommunication program running      Amiga to the other computer.  Be
on both computers the DXF file can     sure to use a protocol such as
be transferred between the             Xmodem or Zmodem to insure that no
computers.  A communication            errors are introduced in the file.
protocol such as Xmodem or Zmodem
should be used to ensure that no
errors are created in the file
during the transfer.

If there is a large distance           If the two computers are more
between the Amiga and the other        distant, you can connect them
computer, they can be connected by     using modems over the telephone
using modems over the telephone        line.  You could call each other
line and a telecommunications          directly, or the DXF file could be
program running on both computers.     uploaded through an intermediate
The computers can be connected by      BBS or national network.
calling each other directly.
Another option is to upload the
DXF file to a local BBS or to a
national computer network.  At a
later time the DXF file can be
downloaded to the Amiga.

Since DXF files are in ASCII           Because DXF files are ASCII,
format they can be quite large.        human-readable files, they tend to
DXF files for buildings can range      take up a lot of disk space.  If
from 500k to at least 2 megabytes      you share files via the serial
in size.  Reducing the size of the     port, you can save time by
file will decrease the time            reducing the size of the DXF file
required to transfer the file by       by using any of the popular public
either 'null modem' cable or           domain file compression utilities
modem.  Public domain and              such as PKZip, Arc, LHarc, etc.,
shareware file compression             that are available for both the PC
utilities such as Arc, LHarc, etc.     and the Amiga.
are available for the Amiga, IBM
and Macintosh computers.  The same
compression algorithm is not used
by all the utilities.  Make sure
that the program used for
decompression is compatible with
the program used for compressing
the file.  The DXF files are                           With PKAZip, DXF
human-readable files so a              files are typically compressed to
compression utility can usually        20 percent of their original size.
decrease the file size by 20%.




##

Subject: Re: Is there an AGA-supporting version of Imagine?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 11:02:04 PDT
From: [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)

>
> I am a fairly long-term user of Imagine (bought 1.0 when it first came out, and
> upgraded to 2.0 as soon as it was available).  I thought I heard on the net
> sometime ago that there was a 2.01 floating around that supported AGA input
> and output (HAM8 files, etc, and ability to use different screenmodes like
> Super72 or whatever).
>
I've been a registered user since 0.9B.

> However, I phoned Impulse and got an extremely rude gentleman on the other
> end (no surprise there) who in short, told me I had been misinformed,
> and that the fact that I had never received the last two Impulse newsletters
> wasn't their fault.
>
I've never recieved a newsletter.  Among other things, I called them a bunch
of times, and asked about it, and sent a registered letter requesting one.

No go.

They do believe I am real, as they have upgraded me repeatedly...

> Any ideas, people?  Not getting the last two newsletters has left me
> a bit in the dark.  Any info appreciated on whether AGA support exists,
> and if not, when it will arrive.  I had thought 3.0 was supposed to be out
> by now.
>
Get used to it.  When not drowning in fluff as has been the case recently,
this list is a much better source of Imagine info than Impulse.

> * Chuck Cazabon, [e-mail]
> * Amiga 4000 -- Warning:  Due to the graphic nature of this computer,
>               software discretion is advised.

_john



##

Subject: Re: AT3D-Demo
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 19:59:31 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)

>>>>> On 28 Jun 93 13:34:00 EDT, John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]> said:

> [e-mail] writes:
> If anyone has any questions I would be happy to try and
> answer them or pass them on to Wayne.

John> Aside from what they say about imitation and flattery, at least
John> tell Wayne to give credit to Syndesis Corporation for portions of
John> his manual...
John> I can't be certain which version of the manual he used, but
John> compare the following passages from each...

    ...and *possibly* credit T3DLIB for portions of his source code.
I refuse to directly accuse anyone of copying, as that would be libel if
I could not prove it (and can not), but I know for a fact that if it
happened in this instance, that this would be the *third* time that
T3DLIB was used without permission (and therefore illegally) in the
creation of a commercial (or for-profit) product.

                        With all due respect,
                        and without malice or
                        ill will toward anyone,
                            Glenn Lewis



##

Subject: Omni ham-6 anim and pics uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 16:25:26 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>


Ok, by the time you read this (I hope) the Omni animation
will be uploaded to Wuarchive.
I also uploaded 2 jpeg still images for you less ambitious types (it's
only 5 meg for part1 and 10 meg for part2 come on! 8-)

The animation is low-res ham-6 so just about any amiga and any player
can view it.

More questions?  read the uploaded OMNIinfo.txt file or drop me some
email.
Part1 was done with Imagine 2.0 and part2 with Scenery animator 4.0
(Imagemaster was used for the starfield and to build the anim.)

MPEG version soon to follow.

Enjoy!
*************************************************************
* Adam Benjamin                     [e-mail] *
* Christian Animator                   [e-mail]    *
* Spokesmen for Club Paradise          Not a spokesman for  *
* Members ONLY (John 3:3)              Zenith Data Systems  *



##

Subject: 3d Skull needed.
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 00:03:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>

Hey Imagineers,
Anyone have a PD model of a skull I can use in Imagine?  Needed for a
dungeon scene under construction.  I am using the PC version.

Cliff Lee
[e-mail]





##

Subject: Re: Grass
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 00:33:48 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    >Better yet, do everyone a favor and
    >unsubscribe from this list. You have absolutely nothing pertinent or useful
    >to say and you repeatedly show complete disregard for posting guidlines.

    Here here!!!!!  What he said!
    Sorry for quoting what was blatantly obvious the first time around, but
    I just had to say I fully and completely agree with the above!  And I mean it.
----------------------
No... I'm sticking to this...
It is kinda funny... This is all about Imagine, and like I am not
puting a 510 frame animation together right now with the help of Rend24
and like I don't have a 530 frame 358x240 24-bit animation on
the way (which I calculate will take 20 days just because of the complexity
of the objects). I am not a real Imagineer, but I do use the program
to make my objects and flight paths... I'm less a hands-on animator
and more a programmer.. I guess I really don't belong here, but then again
this is where some of the others who are doing the type of stuff I am doing
frequently visit... Of course they don't say much, but just the same
they exist.. I gues you could say I am "Pro-Imagine-Object Editing"
but "Anti-Imagine object rendering"... I really believe that I
could leave the computing up to a few machines which are almost
doing nothing 24 hours a day but maintaining the system.

So, I'm here for those who would like to get some REAL computing
power into their animations... My oftware isn't complex or imposible,
it is actually pretty simple.. Just learning to automate my
workspace and having fun at the same time.

Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait... Can't wait to get those
4 Indigos and that SGI Challenge ( a 64 grand server that goes 150 MIPS).
The SU's (two of them) haven't had any luck hooking the machines
up, but I have found how much fun you can have with two networked
Indigo's... Anyone ever play the DOGFIGHT??? That is a heck uva
lot of fun... Let me see.. 30+30+30+30+150 = 270 Mips??? not bad
considering our total attendance in the CS dept. here is like 100...
small school... I'm probably going to be the only AIDE using the
SGI's... As soon as we get it hooked up, I will take orders
here on things people would like to see 270 Mips of power render...
There isn't any limit really... all 4 Indigos each have 16megs
of memory and the Challenge has a 1.2 gig hard drive..

PS- Has anyone been able to view pictures in the 1152x812 (resolution?)
res 24-bit mode on the Retina... I heard it had that mode...
Just what I was looking for.. Will probably buy it (probably, my foot...
heck a NeXT user could only wish he had that resolution... ;-) ).

Kiernan


##

Subject: Re: AT3D-Demo
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 01:31:07 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alex Deburie)

On Mon 28-Jun-1993 11:24pm, [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
said:
>  ...and *possibly* credit T3DLIB for portions of his source code.
> I refuse to directly accuse anyone of copying, as that would be libel if
> I could not prove it (and can not), but I know for a fact that if it
> happened in this instance, that this would be the *third* time that
> T3DLIB was used without permission (and therefore illegally) in the
> creation of a commercial (or for-profit) product.
>
>                 With all due respect,
>                 and without malice or
>                 ill will toward anyone,
>                    Glenn Lewis

Glenn,

After reading this and doing some counting (on my fingers) of the
current shareware/commercial object converters, I felt it necessary
to speak up.

I sincerely hope you do not think that Vertex, my shareware /
commercial object editor & converter has any basis on your code from
T3DLIB. Actually, I wasn't even aware your code existed in the public
domain until well after I had written the initial routines.

I worked long and hard on the Imagine/Turbo Silver file format. Making
judiscious use of a compare program, and a hex dump program, I can
assure you the Imagine/TurboSilver routines in Vertex are entirlely
written by me, with no help from anyone.

With equal respect and without malice or ill will,

     -- Alex Deburie
        [e-mail]
        The Art Machine




##

Subject: Apex
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 03:19:53 -0500
From: Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>

Well, I got the new Apex newsletter today.  Amazing new textures!  Thanks Steve,
Glenn, and the gang.  But since I've pretty much converted to Real 3D now, I
can't wait to see what you do with it.  How would you do it?  Would you write
your own RPL handlers?  (RPL is the built-in programming language of Real 3D)

Danimal
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: AGA Imagine
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 02:17:17 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    now according to an ancient newletter I had recieved. I have Aladdin 2.1 and it
    has AGA file format availibility-for anims as well as brushmaps. The software ha
----------------
Do you like it???  I was considering getting it... I'm very frugal
and I always say "I'm thinking about getting XXX", it is just that there
is some many neat toys out there, I think I will get one of each....
;-)
----------------
    really can't understand Impulse's lack of support. Where's the 25th Annivesary
    Star Trek object disk promised? What happened to their deal with Viewpoint for
    pro objects? Why are Steve Worley & Glenn Lewis doing more for Imagine users
    than the company that owns the software? I really don't want to use Imagine
----------------
Good guys and bad guys... It is not wierd that someone external would master
the art of using and supporting Imagine like Glenn and Steve, what is
amazing is is that we get to talk to them... Impulse doesn't want to talk
to anybody...
----------------
    just for modelling but if things don't change fairly soon I think alot of
    people will do just that and rely on Interchange/PixelPro to move objects
    to a better rendering program.
----------------
I doubt it... I'm starting to agree with the Imagine users that
Imagine is lower priced and well featured for what it does.. I don't
use its animation capabilities because my computer is just a wimpy
16MHz 68030 with 68881... I don't want to waste money on a 35MHz 68040,
so I just choose to do my animations using a external machine..


##

Subject: Re: Omni ham-6 anim and pics uploaded to ftp.wustl.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 02:43:57 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    I also uploaded 2 jpeg still images for you less ambitious types (it's
    only 5 meg for part1 and 10 meg for part2 come on! 8-)
--------------
Sounds like something I am doing... Is there a trend here... ;-)
I have a 530 frame animation which I estimate will be 18 megs
when completed, but that is compressed under JPEG... decompressed
I expect it will be 20-40 megs... yuck...
The first fifty frames took up two disks... Yikes...


##

Subject: Re: Imagine to Rayshade
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 01:56:32 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    Ok this is my first post to the list so here goes ---->

        At my uni I use a dec 3100 workstation and have been playing
    about with rayshade for a while now and want to be able to deign
    objects in a cad like enviroment either on the dec or on my amiga
    using either Imagine or Real 3d .......
        Is there any way to convert imagine objects to rayshade
    scripts ? Or better still Real 3d objects ? (I LOVE CSG *8)_ )
        Hope someone can help..............


            Graeme Wilson

        On the net as     ---oooOOO Git OOOooo---
--------------------------------
This is exactly... I mean exactly what I have been doing... I
have a Decstation 5000 with Rayshade and am using
Imagine 1.1 to make objects and fly-throughs for rayshade...
I wrote some C code to do the job for me.. Can you write/read
C source?? If so, readon you might find this stuff interesting..
I made some specially written source to do animations
in rayshade...

This is how I do my things (some think I am crazy but I
am glad to see someone else who wants to do the same things I am
doing...):

1. I make my objects in imagine...

2. I convert the objects to rayshade using Glenn Lewis'
    T3DLIB programs: tddd2ray and tddd2off.

    A. I use tddd2ray to convert inidvidual imagine objects to
        a rayshade LISTed object. (list ... stuff ... end).
        The result is then filtered through my rayshadeconverter
        which strips the ambient/translate lines that (Glenn listen here)
        screw up Rayshade 4.0... So removing these lines correct this
        problem.

    B. Tddd2off is used on my path objects (which are just a bunch of
        dots that run in the order in which i placed them in Imagine.)
        Tddd2off will maintain this order and will output a ".geom"
        file which contains the points in the paths I made in Imagine.
      (Note: I have no idea what the first line (in the .geom file) meant
         so I skip it in my RAYFLY program...)

3. The objects and paths (.ray and .geom files) are copied to a MSDOS
    floppy disk using CrossDos. Then the objects are unloaded onto
    my account on the UNIX machine through a MSDOS machine with NFS on it.

4. I make the scene file so that it #includes the cammera, target
    positions, objects and lights that I will use. #includes make it
    incredibly easy to perform complex effects that would be impossible
    to implement on Imagine (like conforming an object to a 4D function)
    without some serious help from one of the local wizards...

5. Taking a last look at my setup, making sure everything is in place...
    checking screen resolution, flight paths, etc.. I prepare to
    execute my special rayshade animation program with individual
    target and cammera path support.

6. Last, I execute rayfly (rayshade flythrough) and put it in the background.


While I am gone, the system will keep my process in the background forever,
at least until lightning strikes, the power company shuts off the power,
etc.. It will run until all the frames are made... after each frame
is made rayfly compresses each frame using JPEG 3.0 and deletes the original
RLE frame in the process. Since Getx11 support a movie mode I have a program
called "Display" that decompresses each frame and concatenates all the frames
together into one file and tells GetX11 to view the joined RLE
file in Movie mode... I have written pratically everything to
automate the entire process:

Pack - does what any hard disk backup program does but is written
         to use existing Unix commands to perform the complex tasks...

ConvertRay - strips the ambient/diffuse/translate lines from
                 files converted using tddd2ray.

MakeLight - converts spheres in rayshade format into lights with a specific
                radius (equal to or a percentage of the spheres radius).

MakeEntry - takes a set of rayshade text files and automatically
                generates the #includes for the raayshade scene file
                to include each object and it names the object...

Convert2Rend24 - renames my special file naming format to something
                      rend24 will accept.

Display - explained above...

DisplayRend24 - I'm lazy... if I convert to rend24 naming format,
                     I just use this instead of "display".

Random - randomnly places objects on the X and Y axis. Used to do my
            grass test..

I have a directory full of automating commands that make the process more
easy... Part of the reason why I created them was in anticipation
that someone here would like to use them or get some ideas how to
do animations using a PD rendering program.

Coming soon... Rayfly with an added morphing feature (however it will only
be limited to one object at a time.. It will simply interpolate
points of two versions of the same object and store the in-between
object in a file which will be used in the animation over a period
of frames. I plan to make it possible to synchronize the morphing
points with the cammera and target positions..

I don't know why I am talking about a "Coming soon", I haven't
even started writing the code, but I know it will have to work...
It will not work if you try to morph a object that is 180 degrees
different from the start to the end.... Its okay if you want
to make something look like it is turning inside out... ;-)..

Kiernan

Have you played around with the image mapping and fractal brownian
motion texturing?? What is a lot of fun is to set the stereo
view offset then render stereo pairs, get some Xspecs and
view... Actually I don't have Xspecs, I do it the cheap way, I
put two GetX11 windows close together and I view both frames
parallel with the paths of my eyes (like a viewmaster toy).
As soon as someone tells me how to do blurring in Rayshade, I
will implement that too...




##

Subject: When we can expect Imagine 3.0
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 10:26:45 BST
From: [e-mail]

Hi,

Does anyone know of a release date (if there is one) for Imagine v3.0?

Having just bought an Amiga, I've been trying to get hold of a copy of Imagine v2.0 here in the UK. All the mail order and local Amiga stores don't have any
copies in stock, and say that they'll have to order a copy specially from the
states. One said that the release of Imagine v3.0 was "imminent"!

I'm not to keen on buying Real 3D, but equally don't want to wait for months forImagine v3.0 to appear.

Thanks,

Gurm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gurm Bacchus,
University Computing Service,
University of Leeds,
UK.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: When we can expect Imagine 3.0
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 08:02:25 EST
From: Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>

In a previous post someone, somewhere wrote:

 >Hi,
Hello
>Does anyone know of a release date (if there is one) for Imagine
>v3.0?

Yea, spring of 93 last I heard...

>...One said that the release of Imagine v3.0 was "imminent"!

Heh heh haa haha haaa ha HAA!!!!
Now there's a nice way to start my day.  Thanks for the joke.

Adam B
(another imagine owner who wishes he could afford a T4000)



##

Subject: Essence Examples
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 05:42:41 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Daniel T. Edwards)

I have uploaded two jpeg pics to wuarchive.wustl.edu that have some examples
of Essence textures in them.  Not the textures themselves (of course), but
images I made with them.  in systems/amiga/video/imagine/art is
MirrorBall.jpeg.  I imitated a pic I saw in AW magazine.   The floor is
simply a Essence texture.  In systems/amiga/incoming/imagine is
StillSpace.jpeg.  I used Essence on the sun and the wings and fuselage
of the spaceship.

BTW, I called Apex the other day and ordered (advance) Essence II.
Would you believe Steve answered the phone himself!  Where else
can you call a company and talk to the Head Honcho?  Anyway,
Steve was a real easy guy to talk to and I have every confidence
that I will thoroughly enjoy/abuse all the new textures ASAP.

...I am not affiliated with Apex...
 ____________________________________________________________
/                                                            \
| Amiga 2000                James R. Walker                  |
| 2MB Chip             [e-mail]           |
| 18MB Fast    ______________________________________________|
| 130 MB Hard /                                              |
| 68040 33Mhz |read this R.M. of WB> This Imagineer for rent!|
\____________________________________________________________/


##

Subject: Re: AT3D-Demo
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 08:47:44 EDT
From: watters <[e-mail]>

> Aside from what they say about imitation and flattery, at least tell
> Wayne to give credit to Syndesis Corporation for portions of his
> manual...

He seems to have done a nice job in making the explanations better... you
guys should hire him. :)

Besides...  What does this have to do with using Imagine.  I guess I missed
that part. :)

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993


##

Subject: My first <serious> modeling attempt
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 8:21:09 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Thorne Kontos)

I finally finished modeling a chess set and uploaded it to
wuarchive.wustl.edu in the systems/amiga/incoming/imagine
directory. I uploaded a gif file for space conservation.
Check it out and let me know what you think.

                                      Thanks,
                                      Thorne K. Kontos



##

Subject: Re: AT3D-Demo
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 15:31:49 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)

>>>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 93 01:31:07 EST, [e-mail] (Alex Deburie) said:

Alex> Glenn,

Alex> I sincerely hope you do not think that Vertex, my shareware /
Alex> commercial object editor & converter has any basis on your code
Alex> from T3DLIB. Actually, I wasn't even aware your code existed in
Alex> the public domain until well after I had written the initial
Alex> routines.

    No, no, not at all, Alex.  I never had any suspicions about
Vertex at all.  A very fine product indeed, that you should be proud of!

    In fact, while I am here on the list again, I would like to make
a public apology to everyone for giving into the temptation to post that
message.  There is no excuse, but I was having a very bad day, and let
it out on the IML.  I'm very, very, sorry.  I will try to hold my tongue
(uh, er, fingers) next time and double check my blood pressure before
posting.
                        In a much happier mood,

                            -- Glenn




##

Subject: More Color Definitions Available by Request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 15:18:07 -0400
From: Mark Marino <[e-mail]>

Alright,  I hacked up an awk script to convert the colors.inc file
included with the POVRay raytracing package into RGB values appropriate
for Imagine.  This has some interesting colors not included in the X11
rgb.txt file.

So once again, I'm making this available by request.  I'll upload it to
wuarchive in a few days, if thats o.k. with everyone.  In the interim,
send me an request and I'll bang off a copy to ya.

Happy rendering,
Mark


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                                             |
| Mark Marino              | [e-mail]           |  uunet!osf!omar         |
| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center    |  Cambridge, MA 02142    |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


##

Subject: Essence II
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 12:50:42 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

I promised the lowdown on Essence II, and here it is! All Essence I
owners have been sent out newsletters which contain essentially the
same facts as this post. The big difference is that with Internet
users, I can upload JPEG examples and not have to show printed black
and white halftones. :-) Several of these JPEGS will be uploaded later
today to Portal and FTP site(s), and I'll post their locations when
they are in place.

If you have any questions about Essence II, EMAIL *ME*, not the list.
I'll repost a summary of any recurring questions. This will help cut
down on stray (and repetitive) posts to the IML.  My email address is
"[e-mail]". You can also call Apex at 415-322-7532.

----

Since Essence I came out in August 1992, we've been working on the
sequel.  We've learned a lot since the original Essence has shipped,
and it shows in our new textures. To put it bluntly, the new set rocks
and rolls!  We're AWFULLY proud of these new surfaces. If you liked
the first set of textures, this sequel will absolutely knock you out.
They're THAT good!

So the basics. Most of you already know what Essence is: it's a
library of more algorithmic textures for Imagine. Many (most,
probably!) of the users on the IML probably have and use it.  Essence
II is a second set of completely new textures (It's NOT a revision of
the first set).

Many features in Essence Volume II are similar to Essence I. The
textures work with Imagine 0.9 through 2.0, have built-in capabilities
like the fade control, the -1 color disabling feature, and built in
error messages.

The style of these textures is somewhat different than the original
Essence. Based on feedback from the original Essence we've tailored
many textures to satisfy the demands that many people had.  First,
most of the textures now include a bump mapping ability. Why map just
a plain flat image if you can add bumps and pits and ridges at the
same time?  This made the textures harder to program, but the surfaces
have become so realistic the effort was worth it.  Eighty percent of
the textures have some sort of altitude effect built into them, as
opposed to Essence I in which only about one sixth of the textures
bump-map.

A second change was to decrease the use of obscure parameters like
"Amplitude ratio." This helps you use common sense to determine what
different parameters do. The manual contains complete descriptions of
each control, and we've expanded all of the descriptions to be more
complete and lucid.

The most major addition should well appreciated. Included with Essence
Volume II are well over 150 attribute files which can immediately be
applied to your objects. These are examples of how to use the
textures; sample settings and combinations that show the range of
surfaces that almost all the textures can produce. You can use these
files as a library of new surfaces to add to your object, but more
importantly the variety of these examples will give you a better idea
of what each texture is capable of. There's also a library of on-disk
pictures of many of these so you won't have to render them to get an
idea of what they look like. This should reduce the amount of
experimentation needed to find the type of surface you're looking for.

The textures themselves are a completely different set from the
original volume. These new textures tend to be much more detailed and
less "boring" than the Essence I textures, allowing you to use them
directly without having to use many layers of textures to build a
complex surface.  While many of the Essence I textures were based on
"fractal noise", Essence II has many textures with a different type of
appearance, best described as an organic, randomly tiled surface. This
type of texturing is, literally, state of the art in 1993, with
Essence II being the FIRST company to use this new type of texture
basis. NOBODY using an SGI or a PC or a Mac has these! If this sounds
like we're gloating, well, it's because we are. In a year you'll be
seeing textures with this style being used by others, but right now
Apex has the monopoly over these unique surfaces. You can have great
fun challenging your rendering buddies to reproduce these new effects;
they won't be able to!

Somewhat like Essence I, Essence II has a variety of textures, with a
couple of themes and many that are just unique.  A partial list of
some of the textures follows.

Space Textures

Gasplanet: This texture makes the turbulent, banded surface of gas
planets such as Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus. We even include objects
of these three planets with the correct settings to reproduce the
appearance of the real planets.

Planetring: Absolutely gorgeous planet ring systems, like Saturn's.
You can make a "natural" appearance with subtle shades of colors, or
go for the JPL "photo-enhanced" high contrast electric color scheme.
You can make everything from thin solitary rings to a complex
Saturn-style ring system with thousands of ringlets.

Cyclone: A hurricane spiral, ready to paste onto a planet. It makes a
great Red Spot for Jupiter, or you can use it on a map of Earth and
threaten any city you like with instant destruction.

Spaceship hull: You asked for it, you got it! Irregularly tiled
plates, with varying colors and brightnesses. Another texture
("Machinery") makes the conduit-and-boxy-structure type of surface
that you see on the Death Star. With altitude mapping of course!

Organic Textures

These cannot be easily described. A set of "organic" surfaces with
altitude mapping which will let you make everything from snake skin to
parched, leather-like hides. Many of them are disgusting, sort of like
crusty alien snot (but worse). And these textures are designed to
layer with each other, producing even more repulsive combinations. One
texture in particular makes lumpy-looking fungus patches which, as one
beta tester noted, should not be shown to the squeamish.

Bumpy Things

If you use Bump from Essence I, throw it away. A new set
of altitude textures gives you the ability to transform a flat plane
into a variety of uneven surfaces.

Stucco and Pitted are much more powerful variants of Bump that allow
you to make surfaces with pits and raised surfaces, or stucco-like
layers. You can erode a landscape in an instant.

Crumpled: Perhaps the coolest texture of all. Its abilities are
amazing, despite the plain name. It makes crumpled paper, cauliflower,
even a surface that looks like just like a pile of berries.

Burnish: Just like the Terminator II logo. Makes outstanding metallic
surfaces, as well as scratches on almost any surface. You flying logo
artists will love this puppy!

Water Effects

Waterdrop: the surface ripples that radiating out from a disturbance
in the water, like a impact of a drop of water.

Waterdropref: like Waterdrop, but this version will also compute
REFLECTIONS of the ripples from the sides of a basin or tub. Very
realistic!

Raindrops: Waterdrops falling at random, with definable density and
strength.  Very cool and completely automatic!

Seawaves: an ocean surface, with physically correct, animated,
windblown waves.


Miscellaneous textures

LatLonLines: makes a gridwork on a sphere, just like the lines on a
globe.

Radarscope: A circular disk, with an animated, sweeping trace. You can
use a brushmap or texture to make "blips" which brighten and fade as
the trace passes over them.

Fiber: sort of a mishmash of intertwined threads, like a ball of twine
or a fiberglass patch.

Faceted: A relative of Crumpled which makes gemstones and
photorealistic ice shards.

A list of just some of the other textures:

Bumparray
Clusterbump
Crust
Flagstones
Fleck
Julia
Plasma
Polkabump
Scales
Shingles
Vein
Woodgrain


And thrown in for fun, here's some more statistical comparisons between
Essence I and II:

34 Essence II textures apply bump mapping. (80%)
 8 Essence I  textures apply bump mapping. (12%)

There are 26 "base" textures in Essence I  with 40 variants. (39%/61%)
There are 30 "base" textures in Essence II with 13 variants. (70%/30%)

If code size is a measure of texture complexity, the average texture
executable size in Volume I was 12K. The average texture executable
size in Volume II is 26K.


------------

Essence II has a list price of $140.00. There is a discount price for
IML readers (and current Essence owners) of $74.00 US. Please call
Apex at 415-322-7532 if you have any further questions or wish to
order.

-Steve
[e-mail]



##

Subject: Taking over the list
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 15:03:42 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

In response to Marvin Landis' last posting, I've offered to take over
the archive. Unless Marvin has already made arrangements with someone
else, starting July 1, 1993 I will save, archive, and upload each
months mailings to wuarchive.wustl.edu.

I will not delete any submitted message unless there is a huge outcry
from the majority of subscribers.

My mail has been very stable lately and I don't think I've missed any
traffic.

Name/address:

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    600 Komas Drive
    Salt Lake City, UT 84108

EMAIL:
    [e-mail]



##

Subject: Re: No one wants the archivist job?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 15:24:26 -0700 (MST)
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

It's me again.  I just wanted to report that David Ingebretsen has volunteered
to take over as archivist for the mailing list.  David said he would hate to
see the archive go away (and so would I), so I want to thank David for
his willingness to take on the job.  David's posts to the list are always
well thought out and informative, I have complete confidence that he will
keep the archives rolling along.

All together now,  THANKS David!!!!!

Several people have written me asking if I will be leaving the list once I
give up the archivists job.  No, I'll still be lurking around.  In fact,
because of our hot weather around here (115 degrees last Sat.) I am no longer
able to continue my woodworking hobby in my garage, so I decided it was time
to sit down and do some kind of project using Imagine and my Amiga again.
So, to make sure I would commit some time to Imagine, I called Steve Worley
and ordered Essence and Essence II.  With a couple new toys like that, I
probably won't have any trouble having some fun on my Amiga again.  I have a
couple of new ideas for some animations, and I'm sure Steve's textures will
give me a few more ideas.  So at least during these hot summer nights, I'll be
spending my time in an air conditioned house, working with Imagine.  Maybe this
means I will be able to contribute to the Imagine discussion more often,
rather than just being a predominately silent archivist.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Essence II JPEGS
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 19:23:29 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

I've uploaded four JPEGS to the Aminet ftp sites, in the /new
directory.  Two are simple collages of forty of the textures
(EssII-1.JPEG and EssII-2.JPEG). One is an example of the nine Organic
textures, used in various combinations on an extruded font object
(Organic.JPEG) and the last is some of the Space textures, again on an
extruded font (Space.JPEG). The images have also been uploaded to
Portal.

Aminet is a series of ftp sites that mirror each other. The main
site is ftp.luth.se.

I'll probably upload some more examples in the next week or so.

CG&S


##

Subject: Re: Apex
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 23:36:29 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

    your own RPL handlers?  (RPL is the built-in programming language of Real 3D)
--------
Is this anything like writing  renderman shaders... It sounds interesting..



##

Subject: Re: Is there an AGA-supporting version of Imagine?
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 16:43:54 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Sun, 27 Jun 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

> and output (HAM8 files, etc, and ability to use different screenmodes like
> Super72 or whatever).
>
> However, I phoned Impulse and got an extremely rude gentleman on the other
> end (no surprise there) who in short, told me I had been misinformed,
> and that the fact that I had never received the last two Impulse newsletters
> wasn't their fault.

Not surprising. Although they weren't exactly rude to me they answered all
my questions with one word answers (Yes, soon etc.)

>
> Any ideas, people?  Not getting the last two newsletters has left me
> a bit in the dark.  Any info appreciated on whether AGA support exists,
> and if not, when it will arrive.  I had thought 3.0 was supposed to be out
> by now.
>
It was reported in AW that a version of Imagine 2 would come out
supporting AGA, but Impulse have decided to hold off until V3.0. Now I
wish they'd hurry up with Imagine 3.0.

Nik.
[e-mail]




##

Subject: Re: 3dfonts
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 16:40:07 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

> Also, to repeat my self.  (Since I have got no confermation or denial)
> Can I PLEASE get a sample or something of an essance thing?
> Kinda like a demo?
> Or at the least, ftp a essanced render to aminet for me? So I can see what
> I would be buying! ;) (Gee, right about now my other post is prolly makeing it
> to the list. And I will have repeated myself!)
>
As I've also mentioned this before (BTW, E-mail to you bounced) check out
the gfx/pics/guard directory on the Aminet sites - these contain pictures
created by A. Denton, many of which use Essence and really show its power.

I'm planning to do a piccy using Essence quite heavilly and will U/L it to
wuarchive in a few days.

Nik.
[e-mail]




##

Subject: Re: How's the Retina work with Imagine?
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 16:23:24 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

>
> I have heard much talk over this new graphics board.  If any of you >
use it with Imagine, I'm curious.  What is the maximum resolution > that
you have used when running the modeler? (detail, forms etc.) > Have you
tried to output 24-bit to a VTR (single framing)?  What is the > largest
resolution you can view (on a good monitior) a Imagine rendering? > And
the most important question... Now that you have one, do you want your >
money back? > > I am seriously considering this board and the GVP EGS

I don not own a Retina but I had a lend of it for 3 weeks for a review I
was doing for a local Disk Magazine.
The board works really well with Imagine and I used it at 800*600 and also
at 1024*768 at a friends place. I only had an SVGA monitor so could only
use it at 800*600.
Once the Retina EMU software is setup properly for Imagine (i.e. enter the
Res. from those available and turn off Defaults) Imagine will open on a
new screen with no troubles. In fact even the Imagine.pic doesn't need
changing. The display will update quicker (after the first time - CPU used
for initial drawing of the image) on redraws and the extra detail offered
is great!. What you also get is extra space for the buttons down the
bottom and an added bonus - when in Pick points (or faces, or edges ) mode
hitting Redraw redraws all the  objects (quickly)  rather than just the
object being worked on. There are times when I would buy the Retina just
for this feature! (much more often useful than not)
There is one drawback - you cannot do preview anims in the Stage Editor,
or rather, you can, but will not see them. This was a problem with the EGS
board that I saw here at the WOC last year. The problem is really Imagine,
as it uses direct calls to the Custom Chips and not the graphics.library.

The Emulation software works with quite a few programs and can even handle
some poorly written stuff but not a lot.
256 color WB is supported on AGA machines, but there is also a patch to
run the 8 bit WB on non-AGA machines, but right now this is still quite
slow although workable (kinda like non-expanded A1200).

The rest of the software is not bad, namely XIPaint (VDPaint) although it
isn't TVPaint or Opal Paint.

Animation is still not supported by the software and manuals for the
VDPaint are still in production...

Still, as I concluded in my review, this board is perfect for people that
need Hi-Res displays (e.g. DTP, 3D-artists).

The EGS may be a quicker card (sure looked that way last year)

Nik.
[e-mail]




##

Subject: Re: AT3D-Demo
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:17:30 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Mon, 28 Jun 1993, Jeff Niebergall wrote:

> I just uploaded to wuarchive (128.252.135.4) in
> pub/amiga/incoming a demo version of a new
> 3-D object conversion utility. It FULLY supports
> DXF<>Imagine<>Lightwave and other fromats. The
> programmer, Wayne Hogue is a member of our local
> Amiga club but does not have internet access so
> he asked me to upload it. The file is AT3D.lha and it
> containes some sample DXF objects to try
> with it as well. The demo version is limited
> to objects with less than 99 points and does not save
> preferences. It does however come with Commodore Installer
> and has AmigaGuide online help included.
>
> I will also shortly be uploading some JPG images that were
> rendered in Imagine and modeled in AutoCad that were done
> by one of the beta testers.
>
Well, I have a question... Is the program available, and how much does it
cost?

Nik.
[e-mail]





##

Subject: Re: Brushmap collections
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 17:22:18 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

> Nik,
>
> Thanks for the info.  I'm sure it would be o.k. to post this info to
> the list (especially in light of all the other chaff being posted) so I've
> taken the liberty to CC this to the list.

Ok, thank you.
>
> I'd love to see some of the texture sample pictures uploaded to wuarchive.
> As for IFF vs TIFF vs JPEG for brushmaps, I'd prefer TIFF even if they are
> bigger, at least they're not lossy.  What would be really cool would be if you
> could make up some contact sheets with a little swatch from each of
> the textures and upload that.  If that's not possible, how about an
> list of all the brushmaps in the sets?

Ok, we can make them TIFF on request, but they'll have to be archived
(.lha OK?) in order to fit on the disks.

I can't give you the names as we only have them named as TILE-xxx - Yeah,
I know, very imaginative!.
The disks however have screens included with them that give you the
Picture previews of the tiles.
I may put up a couple of these on the wuarchive. Just remind me in 5 days
please! (WOC starting on the 2nd - it is HECTIC!)

Nik.
[e-mail]





##

Subject: Re: Essence II JPEGS
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 00:07:09 +1000 (EST)
From: Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>

On Tue, 29 Jun 1993, Steve Worley wrote:

>
> I've uploaded four JPEGS to the Aminet ftp sites, in the /new
> directory.  Two are simple collages of forty of the textures
> (EssII-1.JPEG and EssII-2.JPEG). One is an example of the nine Organic
> textures, used in various combinations on an extruded font object
> (Organic.JPEG) and the last is some of the Space textures, again on an
> extruded font (Space.JPEG). The images have also been uploaded to
> Portal.
>
> Aminet is a series of ftp sites that mirror each other. The main
> site is ftp.luth.se.
>
Steve, the problem with the Aminet is that it may not be operating as well
as it used to when amiga.physik.unizh.ch was online.
Maybe you could upload the examples onto wuarchive ?

Nik.
[e-mail]





##

Subject: What's the word on GVP's EGS board?
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 03:46:52 -1000
From: "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]>

> Still, as I concluded in my review, this board is perfect for people that
> need Hi-Res displays (e.g. DTP, 3D-artists).
>
> The EGS may be a quicker card (sure looked that way last year)
>
> Nik.
> [e-mail]

Does anyone have information on GVP's upcomming EGS graphics board?
This board has been in development for years now and I should think
that it is done baking.  I had allmost given up hope on this board
but now I keep seeing people mentioning it.

This REAL nice feature of this board is that it will give A2000 owners
with a GVP accelerator board 32-bit access to it.  That is unless they
have significantly changed the specs in the years that it has been in
development.

Oh yea, it would make a real nice board for use with Imagine. ;-)

-Jeff-

=========================================================================
 [e-mail]           Software Artist           Amiga 2000/030
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The best code optimizer is in your head.   I always want more for less.
=========================================================================



##

Subject: IMAGINE ARCHIVES
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 09:54:02 MDT
From: [e-mail] (David Ingebretsen)

As Marvin said, I will now start archiving the list. I will begin towmorrow
and will upload the archive once per month at wuarchive.

Thanks to all you who contribute to the list. Please, keep me busy :)


    David

    David M. Ingebretsen
    Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
    [e-mail]

    Disclaimer: The content of this message in no way reflects the
                opinions of my employer, nor are my actions
            encouraged, supported, or acknowledged by my
            employer.


##

Subject: help me make dry mud. Please!
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 15:04:03 MDT
From: [e-mail] (Brian Ridout)

Hi all,

    I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.

A second but related question.  If I am finaly able to make this.
Is there a way to make the ground in the distance not look speckled?

Thanks a bunch

Brian Ridout
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Imagine PC
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:01:43 -0700
From: [e-mail]

     I have a couple of questions for Imagine PC owners. Where else can I
find the PC version besides Impulse themselves and how much is the street
price nowadays? If you have both PC and Amiga versions, how similar are the
two? In other words, can staging files, objects, etc. be exchanged? My
friend and I are seriously thinking of getting the PC version and using the
PC as a second renderer.

Thank you much.
-Ramon


##

Subject: Re:  help me make dry mud. Please!
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:00:54 PDT
From: "Charles Congdon" <[e-mail]>

Brian Ridout <[e-mail]> writes:

>    I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
>  If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
>  are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
>  to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
>  ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
>  to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.

    I'd suggest you look at the Organic (in particular Vein1) and
Flagstone textures in Essence II.  I'm pretty sure they can give you the
"cracked" look you want with a little tweeking.  In fact, I recall thinking
this during one of my renderings.
    Alternately, try using an altitude bitmap on which you have painted the
cracks.  The difficulty with this is getting a pattern that doesn't obviously
repeat when tiled.

>  A second but related question.  If I am finaly able to make this.
>  Is there a way to make the ground in the distance not look speckled?

    How about a linear fade on the "cracked mud" texture/bitmap of your
choice that fades it to a solid color in the distance.  Then linear fade "in" a
little blobc to give that distant ground a non-unform appearance, without it
being applied to stuff close up.

    I hope this works.  Good luck!
    Cheers,
    Charles     - Standard disclaimer


##

Subject: Re: long subjects,killfiles
Date:     Wed, 30 Jun 1993 21:02:49 -0400
From: John J Humpal <[e-mail]>

Kevin Kodama writes:
>
> or, at least tell me how to set up a killfile for a mailing list :-)

    Which mailer are you using?  I think this can be done with
elm.  At least, I used to be able to do it with an ancient version.
I just haven't had a reason to until recently.  Harumph!
--
-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer



##

Subject: Re: help me make dry mud. Please!
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 23:52:11 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

        I give up!  I need some help with making a dry lake bed.
    If my assumption is correct a lake bed is made of of cracks which
    are ruff polygons.  Right??  I haven't been able to think of a way
---------------
Ya, but they don't look triangular, actually the edges are more
sharp and rounded than straight edged...
---------------
    to make this.  I have tried using Essence texture blobc.  It looks
    ok but not exactly what I am after.  I really don't want to resort
    to a hand drawn brush map.  Any help would be appreciated.
---------------
There was a article a way back where Amazing computing (before the
days of Imagine 1.1 and 2.0, more like back with Turbo Silver)
gave some instruction on how to create a marble texture map.
I followed the instructions which told me how to create what
looked like stick-men contortionist on a cavewall, smoothed it out,
and low and behold a marble texture... But It also worked
great as a dessert-floor... (PS - this was the first amazing computing
magazine that made me switch from AMiga World as my magazine of choice
to Amazing Computing.. Amazing computing has been helpful ever since..)
Maybe I can find that magazine but it has been about 2 years since
I saw that magazine, who knows where it is now...  It looked
kinda what some artists depict a dinosaur's cracked egg to look like..
Paint it brown and use it as a dessert texture.. ;-)
---------------
    A second but related question.  If I am finaly able to make this.
    Is there a way to make the ground in the distance not look speckled?
-----------------
Lower the specular light diffusion factor... And don't make the stuff glossy.
Lake beds often are dry and crusty (dried mud, looks like cardboard
but can be sharp and bubbley looking). A light source that is either close to
the ground our just above it should prevent the speckled look (if I understand
what you mean by speckled..), Also some anti-aliasing might help smooth
out the background and make the scene look more realitic.  You might be
able to make a brush map that has the texture of the mud but bump-maps
and 2D texturing beyond the texture of the mud will not simulate
a dry lake-bed (up close, that is...) You might try to make some
objects that look like crusty mud, then somehow dissolve it into the
background which is a texture map similar to the 3D objects...

(I wrote this before I read the top... But it might spur some ideas..)
How about hand-doing the brush maps for crusty mud, then convert
the brushes objects and extrude/modify them so the edges are not
totally straight, then take a magnet and push and pull the
underlying surface to create the dry bubble-like ... well
The best way to do it is to go out on a hot day and examine mud..
Living in Texas I saw my share of mud so this isn't all that hard for
me to describe but out around arizona and california, there is a desert
out there somewhere that just looks like cracked earth for miles.


##

Subject: Re:  help me make dry mud. Please!
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 00:00:15 -0600
From: [e-mail] (AIDE Kiernan)

        Alternately, try using an altitude bitmap on which you have painted the
    cracks.  The difficulty with this is getting a pattern that doesn't obviously
    repeat when tiled.
----------------------
Ya... that is something I was almost about to say... A algorithimic texture
that has some amount of randomness in its cracks would do a better
job.. A brush map that is large enough... warping the land just a tad so
that the cracks are hidden by cracks that are more in the foreground thus
tricking the eye into thinking that ground is more complex than it
really is... Puting some eroded drainage ditches in would also make the image
more realistic.